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Lets Go Hokies!!!
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So I took a funny little 3 inch fall about two weeks ago and my back seems to have been tweeked by the whole thing to the point that it hurts to do most anything, especially ride and rock climb. I've been waiting it out because I was on antibiotics for Lyme disease (which I got at the same place as the fall) and one of the symptoms of Lyme is arthritic feelings. I'm trying to decide exactly what to do about it, but I've never had back problems before so I'm coming to you guys for help. Do I see a Chiro or a sports medicine PT or neither? How do I find a chiro that isn't gonna mess me up more? I'm in Northern VA if anyone knows anyone good from the area, I'd definately appreciate the advice. Thanks all!
 

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go see a DOCTOR. go back to the doc who is working with you on Lyme's. Tell him/her what's going on.
I am no fan of chiro's. I'm sorry to all who are, but I'm not. I don't think that they're all bad, just too many of them are. They like to treat, and charge, and they'll give you all of this gobbledygook about energy flow and it's all nonsense. Well, it's not all nonsense, but what they'll do for you is what a good PT will do without all of the nonsense and at a fraction of the cost.
but PT's aren't supposed to see you without a prescription. I think that some will under some circumstances, but falling down with bad back pain/Lyme's disease I don't think is one of them.
 

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Game on, b*tches!
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Yeah, I'll second that. I think chiro's are good for a lot of things but since you've got the pain WITH the Lymes, I'd consult your MD 1st.
 

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BS the DC
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I'm a chiropractor. Picking a good chiropractor is like picking a good medical doctor, PT, priest, plumber or hairdresser. Just ask around. Someone you know probably knows a good chiropractor. When you schedule, ask for a free consult, so you can interview the doctor. I always offer this to people that are unsure if they are in the right place.

"Good" vs. "Bad" chiropractors. There are two factions within chiropractic. One group focuses on rehabilitating musculoskeletal injuries. One group focuses on a philosophy that reducing minor faults of your spine improves your overall health. "Good" chiropractors restrict their practice to musculoskeletal complaints. "Bad" chiropractors teach patients this philosophy and encourage patients to seek care beyond pain relief. The real "bad" in chiropractic is some of the sales techniques they use.

As for getting messed up by a chiropractor, it's extraordinarily rare. Sure there are stories out there, but the bottom line is malpractice for chiropractors is extremely low. Insurance companies are not subsidising malpractice by chiropractors. The fact is, chiropractic is very safe.

I also happen to run a couple of PT clinics. I've hire a number of PTs. It's certainly not a bad route to go, but it's far from cheaper. My PTs bill far more than I do. PT is generally a slower process compared to "good" chiropractic care.

The quickest, most cost effective way to manage musculoskeletal pain is to find a "good" chiropractor. You can receive an exam, x-rays (if necessary), and treatment all in one office. Most patients leave their first visit feeling better.
 

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TWD
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i have only been to chiro care and never a PT but they receive my endorsement. Never experience any sales pressure and walk out feeling much better than when i entered

I am not sure of the long term avoidance of pain that it might provide but can advocate that it minimizes recovery time and provides immediate pain relief for the near term
 

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I had my first spill in more than 30 years of cycling about two years ago. Went down on a corner when my tires slipped on something. I had a fair amount of road rash and skinned knuckles but no other apparent injuries. However, I continued to have neck and shoulder pain for a while after the crash, particularly while riding, so went to a chiropractor. My wife had used the chiro for a while and vouched for them.

To make a long story short, I had treatments for about two months and the problem gradually cleared up. It wasn't cheap and used up all of the money (over $1,000) in my flex health spending account. The chiro said I had longterm neck problems due to an injury when I was a child and recommended further treatment, but the pain I originally sought treatment for cleared up. The pain may have gone away by itself if I hadn't gone to a chiro, as he recommended against riding while treatment was being done (about 2 months). Who knows? I like to think the chiro treatments helped and it wasn't just a big waste of money, but it could have cleared up just due to time off the bike.
 

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BS the DC
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tarwheel2 said:
I had my first spill in more than 30 years of cycling about two years ago. Went down on a corner when my tires slipped on something. I had a fair amount of road rash and skinned knuckles but no other apparent injuries. However, I continued to have neck and shoulder pain for a while after the crash, particularly while riding, so went to a chiropractor. My wife had used the chiro for a while and vouched for them.

To make a long story short, I had treatments for about two months and the problem gradually cleared up. It wasn't cheap and used up all of the money (over $1,000) in my flex health spending account. The chiro said I had longterm neck problems due to an injury when I was a child and recommended further treatment, but the pain I originally sought treatment for cleared up. The pain may have gone away by itself if I hadn't gone to a chiro, as he recommended against riding while treatment was being done (about 2 months). Who knows? I like to think the chiro treatments helped and it wasn't just a big waste of money, but it could have cleared up just due to time off the bike.
I don't know how long "a while after the crash" is, but usually persistent pain beyond a few days is a sign of a significant injury. Two months of treatment is a typical treatment time for physical therapy and $1000 is less than half the price of two months of physical therapy.
 

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fuzzy legs
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bill said:
go see a DOCTOR. go back to the doc who is working with you on Lyme's. Tell him/her what's going on.
I am no fan of chiro's. I'm sorry to all who are, but I'm not. I don't think that they're all bad, just too many of them are. They like to treat, and charge, and they'll give you all of this gobbledygook about energy flow and it's all nonsense. Well, it's not all nonsense, but what they'll do for you is what a good PT will do without all of the nonsense and at a fraction of the cost.
but PT's aren't supposed to see you without a prescription. I think that some will under some circumstances, but falling down with bad back pain/Lyme's disease I don't think is one of them.
what a gobbledygook post. give your head a shake bill.

How lame are those that apologize and then proceed to paint an entire profession with a blind brush.

lame.

b. - a "good" chiropractor I guess.
 

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it's not entirely a blind brush. As a lawyer who's done a fair amount of personal injury work over the years, I have seen lots of patients who go into the care of chiropractors come out with temporary relief (as in, it felt good while therapy was being applied), with massive bills, and relentlessly marketed for endless treatment. The reports too often tend to read the same ("subluxation," anyone?). I once had a client who had real cervical subluxation, and the chiro's had absolutely no clue what to do with her. She was genuinely in danger.
I realize that there are good and bad, just as there are good and bad doctors and good and bad lawyers. Let's just say I never have been impressed. Maybe I haven't encountered the right ones. In twenty years.
 

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BS the DC
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bill said:
it's not entirely a blind brush. As a lawyer who's done a fair amount of personal injury work over the years, I have seen lots of patients who go into the care of chiropractors come out with temporary relief (as in, it felt good while therapy was being applied), with massive bills, and relentlessly marketed for endless treatment. The reports too often tend to read the same ("subluxation," anyone?). I once had a client who had real cervical subluxation, and the chiro's had absolutely no clue what to do with her. She was genuinely in danger.
I realize that there are good and bad, just as there are good and bad doctors and good and bad lawyers. Let's just say I never have been impressed. Maybe I haven't encountered the right ones. In twenty years.
I find it appalling that a personal injury lawyer feels secure enough in his/her profession to malign another. There is no doubt that the chiropractic profession, like most professions, has some bad members and could use some house cleaning, but few professions are quite as dirty as personal injury lawyers.
 

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but few professions are quite as dirty as personal injury lawyers.
Really? I must get solicitations from chiro's, like, all the time to send them my clients. Apparently they either don't share your view, or they do, and are rather anxious to exploit this dirty lawyer. Those solicitations, by the way, go directly into the trash.
Dude, I have been dealing with backs and joints for twenty years. I wouldn't dare treat anyone, but I have made it my job to learn a fair amount about joint disease and injury, treatment modalities, the science behind them, success rates, and the relative costs and benefits. I am not out to malign every chiropractor, because I don't know every chiropractor. Some people I like and respect swear by them. I just can't say that I ever have seen it myself. Far more often I see the opposite, with the client standing there with a massive bill to be paid, minimal improvement, and the chiropractor pressing the client to return. Sorry, and it is indeed anecdotal, but those are the facts in my experience.
I mentioned the patient I represented who had genuine operative cervical subluxation that went undiagnosed by a chiropractor -- I had occasion to discuss the condition with the chiropractor a couple of years later. I asked, how did you miss it? In the interim, this guy had gone on to get an MD, and he shrugged and said, and I quote, "I wasn't a doctor. I didn't know."
Lawyers of any stripe, by the way, with a few exceptions, notable and disturbing, but few, are more honest than clients. Just another observation from twenty years of experience.
 

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It's all ball bearings
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I vote for finding a reputable chiropractor first. I agree that there are a lot of jaggoff chiropractors out there to weed through but that doens't mean that there aren't plenty of good ones. Ask around. Surely there are people you know personally who have been to local chiropractors who have had good results.

IME, they really aren't expensive. The few good ones I've been to who have helped me immensely have been like $90 for the first visit, then $30 for each additional visit after that. That's without insurance, but some insurance plans also cover chiropractic. Compare that to a doctor or a PT if you are paying cash. Of course if you have insurance that covers doc's and PT's but not chiro's then all bets are off.
 

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BS the DC
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bill said:
Really? I must get solicitations from chiro's, like, all the time to send them my clients. Apparently they either don't share your view, or they do, and are rather anxious to exploit this dirty lawyer. Those solicitations, by the way, go directly into the trash.
Dude, I have been dealing with backs and joints for twenty years. I wouldn't dare treat anyone, but I have made it my job to learn a fair amount about joint disease and injury, treatment modalities, the science behind them, success rates, and the relative costs and benefits. I am not out to malign every chiropractor, because I don't know every chiropractor. Some people I like and respect swear by them. I just can't say that I ever have seen it myself. Far more often I see the opposite, with the client standing there with a massive bill to be paid, minimal improvement, and the chiropractor pressing the client to return. Sorry, and it is indeed anecdotal, but those are the facts in my experience.
I mentioned the patient I represented who had genuine operative cervical subluxation that went undiagnosed by a chiropractor -- I had occasion to discuss the condition with the chiropractor a couple of years later. I asked, how did you miss it? In the interim, this guy had gone on to get an MD, and he shrugged and said, and I quote, "I wasn't a doctor. I didn't know."
Lawyers of any stripe, by the way, with a few exceptions, notable and disturbing, but few, are more honest than clients. Just another observation from twenty years of experience.
Well, if solicitation is your measure of lack of professional integrity, then score another one for personal injury attorneys. Go check out the yellow pages. Spend an afternoon checking out the commercials on TV. Come take a look at my mailbox. You'll find plenty of solicitations from personal injury attorneys. That said, I don't think solicitation of patients/clients is a measure of integrity. It's a measure of market forces.

Your position is totally anecdotal. We could spend years telling bad stories about one anothers profession. Despite your anecdotal reports, the care rendered by most chiropractors is not only effective, but it's been proven to be cost effective.

http://backandneck.about.com/od/researchstudie1/a/chirotreatcost.htm

Despite a few inept chiropractors out there, the profession has an excellent safety record. The bottom line is I pay $1800/year for 3 million dollars of malpractice coverage. The reason for such low premiums certainly isn't a lack of hungry personal injury attorneys.
 

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BS the DC
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bill said:
one more thing -- in 20 years, I cannoy recall receiving a solicitation from an MD.
Last I recall, medical expenses accounted for 14% of our nations gross national product. Chiropractic represents less than .1% of that amount. MD's command a great deal of cultural authority. They are in the driver's seat. They don't need to market. Marketing is done for them through ER, House, Grey's Anatomy, and trillion's of dollars of drug advertisements.

Most medical doctors I know don't take LOP's from attorneys. They are tired of having their bills cut in half by greedy attorneys/patients after waiting a year to get paid. Unfortunately, many chiropractors are hungry enough to feed off these scraps. I, for one, am in a position to not have to accept LOP's from attorneys I don't know. Some day, I hope to be in a position to not have to work with any attorneys at all.
 

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fuzzy legs
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bill said:
one more thing -- in 20 years, I cannoy recall receiving a solicitation from an MD.
There's a question of population access, our profession accesses 13% of the population, the medical profession has access to 100%.

Sounds to me like you wouldn't be able to see a good Chiropractor if he was wearing his endorsements pinned to his shirt, you're objectivity is certainly questionable and you've got 20 years of bias to back that up.

I picked up a displaced C2 odontoid fracture that 2 MD's and a radiologist missed after an MVA. Just 4 weeks ago I sent a lady back to the ER after they missed a 6cm abdominal aortic aneurysm. But hey, maybe I'm just a good guesser. It's nice to accidentally save someone's life while chasing that buck though isn't it.

b.
 

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They are tired of having their bills cut in half by greedy attorneys/patients after waiting a year to get paid.
you think that this is because of a greedy lawyer? who has his bias on his sleeve, now?
here's the other side of the story. lawyer, greedy or otherwise, has little to do with it, but the health care bill dwarfs the money on the table. everyone takes a cut in order to keep some money on the table.
you all think that because the lawyer's contingency fee bears no relation to the amount of time the lawyer has spent means that the lawyer gets a windfall. In the smaller cases, the kind a chiro would treat, this is almost never the case. more typically, the lawyer's reduction of his fee reduces what is an already extremely modest fee to peanuts -- I have handled cases with a resulting fee on an hourly basis that is simply too depressing even to consider. Hopefully you can average it with a more generous fee on larger cases, but that's the risk you take. You took the case usually because someone wanted your help and you could give it. It had nothing to do with greed. Most lawyers try to make a living and do okay, but not what people apparently think. In a recent analysis of the twenty-five most highly paid professions by, I think, Forbes recently, twenty were in the health care field, including, as I recall, nine out of the top ten. I actually don't remember if chiropractors were in that top twenty five -- I remember that podiatrists were -- but lawyers were only number twenty five.
That DC's malpractice is low seems to me to be more a measure of what a DC does. You guys basically lay on hands. That's a bit facetious, but it's not too far off. You can't even prescribe medicine. The worst that can happen is a failure to diagnose, and frankly I don't know what anyone really expects a DC to diagnose. If all a DC did was to manage to refer back to an MD a problem too serious for a DC to treat, you're in the clear. I candidly can't think of an instance in which anyone has thought enough of chiro's to try to blame them for anything serious.
All of that said, I would love to meet you, each of my offended cycling brethren who happen to be chiro's, and ride hard for a while and then let you convince me that I'm a jerk who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
 

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BS the DC
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bill said:
you think that this is because of a greedy lawyer? who has his bias on his sleeve, now?
here's the other side of the story. lawyer, greedy or otherwise, has little to do with it, but the health care bill dwarfs the money on the table. everyone takes a cut in order to keep some money on the table.
you all think that because the lawyer's contingency fee bears no relation to the amount of time the lawyer has spent means that the lawyer gets a windfall. In the smaller cases, the kind a chiro would treat, this is almost never the case. more typically, the lawyer's reduction of his fee reduces what is an already extremely modest fee to peanuts -- I have handled cases with a resulting fee on an hourly basis that is simply too depressing even to consider. Hopefully you can average it with a more generous fee on larger cases, but that's the risk you take. You took the case usually because someone wanted your help and you could give it. It had nothing to do with greed. Most lawyers try to make a living and do okay, but not what people apparently think. In a recent analysis of the twenty-five most highly paid professions by, I think, Forbes recently, twenty were in the health care field, including, as I recall, nine out of the top ten. I actually don't remember if chiropractors were in that top twenty five -- I remember that podiatrists were -- but lawyers were only number twenty five.
That DC's malpractice is low seems to me to be more a measure of what a DC does. You guys basically lay on hands. That's a bit facetious, but it's not too far off. You can't even prescribe medicine. The worst that can happen is a failure to diagnose, and frankly I don't know what anyone really expects a DC to diagnose. If all a DC did was to manage to refer back to an MD a problem too serious for a DC to treat, you're in the clear. I candidly can't think of an instance in which anyone has thought enough of chiro's to try to blame them for anything serious.
All of that said, I would love to meet you, each of my offended cycling brethren who happen to be chiro's, and ride hard for a while and then let you convince me that I'm a jerk who doesn't know what I'm talking about.
No need to ride. I don't think I could convince you the sky is blue and there's no end to this debate. We'll just have to agree to disagree.
 

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When you do feel stronger- start doing Yoga. I know many guys that used to have back problems, but since they started doing Yoga, the problems have gone away. I hate the few moments of new age chanting in the beginning, but it doesn't hurt that all the women in the class are both hot and strong- that should help motivate you...............MTT
 

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It's all ball bearings
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MTT said:
When you do feel stronger- start doing Yoga. I know many guys that used to have back problems, but since they started doing Yoga, the problems have gone away. I hate the few moments of new age chanting in the beginning, but it doesn't hurt that all the women in the class are both hot and strong- that should help motivate you...............MTT
I just started doing yoga about a month ago...it's a lot more of a workout than I thought it would be! During my 3rd class the instructor had us working at a pretty good pace, and I was breathing pretty dang hard and pretty dang sore the next day. Unfortunately, at my beginner level there aren't many hotties in the class. I think most yoga hotties have been at it a while and are too proficient to be in a beginner class.
 
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