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I've narrowed down my frame choice to the Moots Vamoots SL and Pinarello Dogma FP. They are quite different from each other but either would make a nice addition to my current rides. Can anyone help be a tiebreaker?
 

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eminence grease
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Magnesium spontaneously corrodes on exposure to air. You don't want to be a riding down the road and have your bike disappear, do you?

The Moots is constructed from a naturally passivating material, it's safe and stable. Buy it.
 

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What TB said. Plus if you go down hard, the Dogma will explode into flames as it slides across the tarmac. And if the fire dept. that shows up doesn't have foam or powder to extinguish the blaze, your bike will burn to the ground.

There have been some issues with paint bubbling up on Dogmas. Don't know how wide spread it is. Moots bikes never have an issue with paint bubbling up.

It's also much safer to look at Moots seatstays and forks. If you happen to be trippin' on windowpane when you look at the Dogmas forks and seatstays, the curviness is likely to cause you to have a psychotic break.

Now if you'd asked about a Merckx AXM or a De Rosa Proto 1-d, well, that'd be a tougher choice to make.
 

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Cross Bike Collector.....
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Moots Vamoots SL or What?

What is the choice? You did say Vamoots SL right? Pinarello's are nice sure, we gots a LBS with all the fancy Eyetralian bikes, Colnago's, De Rosa's, Pinarello's, Bianchi's, Pegoretti's, Time's, Look's, If it's Euro, they got um. Now go roll a Moots SL in that shop and watch what all the guys that work there go and fuss over. ;)
 

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Phat&SlowVelo said:
What is the choice? You did say Vamoots SL right? Pinarello's are nice sure, we gots a LBS with all the fancy Eyetralian bikes, Colnago's, De Rosa's, Pinarello's, Bianchi's, Pegoretti's, Time's, Look's, If it's Euro, they got um. Now go roll a Moots SL in that shop and watch what all the guys that work there go and fuss over. ;)
PSV knows what he's flappin' his gums about. Go Moots, live long, and prosper. Make sure, though, that you don't listen to PSV or his ilk when it comes to choosing a grouppo. Happiness is best found in Campy Record or Chorus. It's what a Moots deserves. It's what you deserve.
 

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eminence grease
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alienator said:
PSV knows what he's flappin' his gums about. Go Moots, live long, and prosper. Make sure, though, that you don't listen to PSV or his ilk when it comes to choosing a grouppo. Happiness is best found in Campy Record or Chorus. It's what a Moots deserves. It's what you deserve.
Did he put Shimano on that thing? I never noticed that. He's out of the club!
 

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Burst into flames or

Moots fills its 6/4 titanium tubes with helium so you can climb like an angel.

I'm just just trying to figure out why I can still can't climb. Must be my lead legs.

Go with the Moots.
 

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terry b said:
Did he put Shimano on that thing? I never noticed that. He's out of the club!
Yup, he did. And then he has the gall to talk to US as if he's an equal or something. Jeez. Well, at the Great Moots Get Together, I'll treat him like I treat all other Shimano users: he'll fetch my refreshments; he'll always pull and block the wind from me; and when I'm sitting down, he'll have to kneel 3 ft behind me and my Record clad Moots and to the left.
 

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terry b said:
Magnesium spontaneously corrodes on exposure to air. You don't want to be a riding down the road and have your bike disappear, do you?

The Moots is constructed from a naturally passivating material, it's safe and stable. Buy it.

are you serious??? you know nothing of metallurgy. the magnesium frame will do nothing of the sort. frames are treated to prevent corrosion over a long period of time (ie. 5-7 yrs.) and that's it. they won't just corrode and fall apart while your riding it one day. i guess your brake levers, small parts, and am classic wheels just vaporize too. think before you speak... the magnesium frame with provide a stiffer drivetrain and be a more comfortable than the ti frame, although it will probably weigh .1-.3 lbs more.

if you're serious about the ti frame, go with a merlin. they do all their own cold working, they have mandrels to manipulate the tubes, and they use double pass welds as a standard. i assure you they do more to a frame to enhance performance and longevity than moots. oh and before anyone brings up the stupid question "umm..aren't they owned by litespeed?" No they aren't. merlin and litespeed share the same facility, but they are built under 2 differing philosophies. they do use the same welders, but the welders weld for each company following different procedures according to what the company thinks is the best method for their frames.
 

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cocoboots said:
are you serious??? you know nothing of metallurgy. the magnesium frame will do nothing of the sort. frames are treated to prevent corrosion over a long period of time (ie. 5-7 yrs.) and that's it. they won't just corrode and fall apart while your riding it one day. i guess your brake levers, small parts, and am classic wheels just vaporize too. think before you speak... the magnesium frame with provide a stiffer drivetrain and be a more comfortable than the ti frame, although it will probably weigh .1-.3 lbs more.

if you're serious about the ti frame, go with a merlin. they do all their own cold working, they have mandrels to manipulate the tubes, and they use double pass welds as a standard. i assure you they do more to a frame to enhance performance and longevity than moots. oh and before anyone brings up the stupid question "umm..aren't they owned by litespeed?" No they aren't. merlin and litespeed share the same facility, but they are built under 2 differing philosophies. they do use the same welders, but the welders weld for each company following different procedures according to what the company thinks is the best method for their frames.
Uhm, TerryB had his tongue shoved in his cheek there, guy.
 

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A Canadian in Sweden
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To be honest, all the members responding with the exception of coco, who unfortunately missed Terry's humour, are big Moots advocates, including myself. We all probably like and appreciate Pinarello, but throwing a Moots into the equation is pretty unfair. You know what we will answer. Wait for it...Dick, Neil, and Harvery will be here soon enough to plug Moots too :).
Cheers, Wayne
 

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eminence grease
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alienator said:
Yup, he did. And then he has the gall to talk to US as if he's an equal or something. Jeez. Well, at the Great Moots Get Together, I'll treat him like I treat all other Shimano users: he'll fetch my refreshments; he'll always pull and block the wind from me; and when I'm sitting down, he'll have to kneel 3 ft behind me and my Record clad Moots and to the left.
I'm bettin' with that groupset reliability he won't make it from the parking lot to the refreshment stand and back. Better to send someone with Veloce when you're depending on them to come back.
 

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If your are going to race it- get the Dogma FP, it's a great race bike.

If you are just riding it- get the Moots. But that also means you have to get the Moots Ti stem and seatpost too. It's mandatory.

And you can go Campy or Shimano- doesn't matter really. But no lower then Record, Chorus or Dura Ace.
 

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eminence grease
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wayneanneli said:
To be honest, all the members responding with the exception of coco, who unfortunately missed Terry's humour, are big Moots advocates, including myself. We all probably like and appreciate Pinarello, but throwing a Moots into the equation is pretty unfair. You know what we will answer. Wait for it...Dick, Neil, and Harvery will be here soon enough to plug Moots too :).
Cheers, Wayne
I think the other thing to consider is the vast difference in looks. The Moots is pure Bauhaus while the Dogma falls squarely in the Baroque. Saarinen's USAF Academy Cadet Chapel or Gaudi's Cathedral in Barcelona. Ride-wise both will be wonderful and both will draw the attention of all the Jessica Simpson wannabes that line the roads while we participate in well attended, organized centuries. But, one is pure simplicity and one is pure glam. And that's not said as a slur, I love Pinarello's aesthetic. I just like Moots' better.

Gaudi

Saarinen
 

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alienator said:
Uhm, TerryB had his tongue shoved in his cheek there, guy.
TerryB...please accept my apology...sarcasm is difficult to read...much easier to hear from a person. it seems most people on this forum rag magnesium, and they've never ridden it. sorry if you felt i jumped down your throat.
 

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la dolce vita
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I've owned a Moots for 5 years and everytime I ride it still feels like the first time. I own/owned a bunch of bikes and nothing comes close to the Moots. I toured the factory a year ago and I would never buy another high end bike unless it was a Moots. The build, the finish, the ride quality, the mystique can't be beat. In group rides with all the French, Italian and Tennesee made bikes, my Moots is often the center of attention. If you can afford it, buy it and you'll never regret it.
 

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eminence grease
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cocoboots said:
TerryB...please accept my apology...sarcasm is difficult to read...much easier to hear from a person. it seems most people on this forum rag magnesium, and they've never ridden it. sorry if you felt i jumped down your throat.

Absolutely no problem, I fully understood that you missed the point. This place is for fun, but sometimes the humor gets missed. That's the problem with 1000 different authors and 2000 different styles, we all don't "get it" the first time around. I've walked into the sarcasm minefield a million times myself. It happens, no big deal. ;)
 

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Defender of Freedom...
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wayneanneli said:
To be honest, all the members responding with the exception of coco, who unfortunately missed Terry's humour, are big Moots advocates, including myself. We all probably like and appreciate Pinarello, but throwing a Moots into the equation is pretty unfair. You know what we will answer. Wait for it...Dick, Neil, and Harvery will be here soon enough to plug Moots too :).
Cheers, Wayne
Well said, this is not what I would call an unbiased group. In fact I would call the "Mooties" a pretty rabidly biased lot. But you have to love brand loyalty...

Anyways I agree with Alienator, those ONDA stays somehow induce a nausiating effect everytime I see them, I'd wager that half the people that would see the Pina would think "Man that's sweet" or "Damn that's ugly". The Moots (or any other high end Ti) would have instant "Oh La La" for most everyone but the paint addicted. Go Ti

JR (Former-Moots owner)
 
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