[Lombard]

"About 4NM"? What is "about"?
What brand shoe has a cleat screw torque significantly under 4NM? Because it'd have to be significantly under 4NM in order for you to have pulled the insert out.

Either the shoe was defective, the wrench was defective, or perhaps you converted wrong and used ft-lbs.

Well 4Nm = 5.4ft-lbs, so I doubt that was it. I still vote for defective torque wrench. I had a Park Tool torque wrench I was suspicious about. I bought a better torque wrench and sure enough, when comparing, I could feel the Park Tool one was over torquing.

 

[tlg]

Well 4Nm = 5.4ft-lbs, so I doubt that was it. I still vote for defective torque wrench. I had a Park Tool torque wrench I was suspicious about. I bought a better torque wrench and sure enough, when comparing, I could feel the Park Tool one was over torquing.

No, I mean using 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs.
Not an uncommon mistake.

 

[Lombard]

No, I mean using 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs.
Not an uncommon mistake.

​

​

Damn. I may be a bit tactily challenged, but I can't imagine anybody not being able to feel the difference between ft-lbs and in-lbs.

 

[tlg]

Damn. I may be a bit tactily challenged, but I can't imagine anybody not being able to feel the difference between ft-lbs and in-lbs.

A lot of people don't have a feel. Especially those who don't have experience with torque wrenches. They grab a wrench, set a number, and start turning. If you have a torque wrench graduated in Ft-Lbs, and you're turning 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs, it's gonna 'feel' really easy.

 

[Lombard]

A lot of people don't have a feel. Especially those who don't have experience with torque wrenches. They grab a wrench, set a number, and start turning. If you have a torque wrench graduated in Ft-Lbs, and you're turning 35 Ft-lbs instead of 35 In-lbs, it's gonna 'feel' really easy.

Well IDK, a torque wrench that goes up into the 35ft-lb area is much larger than any tool a reasonable person would use to torque a shoe cleat. Granted there are some ham fisted DIYers out there, but I think this one is still a stretch.

 

[No Time Toulouse]

​

Damn. I may be a bit tactily challenged, but I can't imagine anybody not being able to feel the difference between ft-lbs and in-lbs.

If you've worked on as many cars as I have, it's not hard to do. 10 ft-lbs feels like almost nothing at the end of a 3' torque wrench. Add to that the fact that I've managed on at least 3 occasions to break automotive lug bolts clean off a car, it's sometimes hard to transition into delicate work like a bike requires. I also have Reynaud's syndrome, and I couldn't tell the difference between 5Nm and 10Nm just by touch.

 

[Lombard]

If you've worked on as many cars as I have, it's not hard to do. 10 ft-lbs feels like almost nothing at the end of a 3' torque wrench. Add to that the fact that I've managed on at least 3 occasions to break automotive lug bolts clean off a car, it's sometimes hard to transition into delicate work like a bike requires. I also have Reynaud's syndrome, and I couldn't tell the difference between 5Nm and 10Nm just by touch.

Point taken about Reynaud's and tactile ability. However, I think most people can guess that a 3ft torque wrench is the wrong tool for cleat bolts.

 

[tlg]

Point taken about Reynaud's and tactile ability. However, I think most people can guess that a 3ft torque wrench is the wrong tool for cleat bolts.

And... most people don't rip the insert out of their shoes.

Ft-Lb torque wrenches come much smaller than 3'. I've got an 80 Ft-Lb wrench that's 13in.

 

[Lombard]

And... most people don't rip the insert out of their shoes.

Ft-Lb torque wrenches come much smaller than 3'. I've got an 80 Ft-Lb wrench that's 13in.

13 inches is still a long wrench to be torquing little screws with. I use a torque wrench that is around 6 inches long that has a 3-15Nm range:

PRO Torque Wrench | Jenson USA

www.jensonusa.com

My larger torque wrench is used on things like cassettes and pedals.

 

[tlg]

13 inches is still a long wrench to be torquing little screws with.

Stop thinking like someone who knows how to use tools. It's not about what you would do.

The point is.... it takes someone doing something that they shouldn't be doing to pull an insert from a shoe.
I gave a feasible explanation of what I have seen people do with torque wrenches.

 

[Notvintage]

Be mindful and install the screws without any lubricant. ANY lube/loctite will drastically change the developed pre-load at any particular torque value. I install dry at 5-Nm and recheck every now and again.

 

[Lombard]

Stop thinking like someone who knows how to use tools. It's not about what you would do.

The point is.... it takes someone doing something that they shouldn't be doing to pull an insert from a shoe.
I gave a feasible explanation of what I have seen people do with torque wrenches.

You do have a point. Heck, I used to work with someone who didn't know he didn't need paint thinner to clean latex paint off brushes.

 

[Hy7seas]

I just bought a new pair of Mavic Huez road shoes. As I prepare to attach my Look Keo cleats to them I have a question that has come to mind every time I put new cleats on any carbon soled shoes. That question is how tight do you tighten the cleat screws? The Huez in particular is a very thin carbon sole. So much so that the shoes come with special, shorter, screws. Any time I work with carbon parts I try to use my torque wrench. However in this case I don't know what torque value to torque the screws to. Any help?:??

With Carbon soles I would not go over 4 Nm...then if the cleat does somehow move when riding (unlikely) you could go a tad higher and consider using blue Lock Tight

 

[Finx]

 

[Lombard]

With Carbon soles I would not go over 4 Nm...then if the cleat does somehow move when riding (unlikely) you could go a tad higher and consider using blue Lock Tight

I have carbon soles and tighten my cleats to 6Nm. I've never stripped a thread or pulled out an insert.

 

[Lombard]

View attachment 478123

Was this sign in Maine?

 

[tlg]

If you think 5 or 6nm is going to damage your carbon sole, you probably shouldn't walk in them. They might asplode.

 

[Mapei]

I use a happy little Allen Key from a Craftsman key set. I put the short end into the bolt and torque the bolt down to the point where it'll be painful on the fingers & palm to go any further. Not that I'm a gorilla or a racer, but after riding over forty years, I think I've only had a cleat loosen up on me twice. Or was that thrice?