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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
riding in the fastest group last week i was told not to sprint and excel fast up hills if i wasn't doing my fair share of the pull. anytime there is a pace line i am involved but many times some of the stongest riders pull more by their choice. the qroup has their sprint markers and if i am in a good position and feel good i go for it. iam not making them pull more, its their choice, they are in control of their bike not me. iam 53 years old and can hang with the racers in the group if iam smart. i do not race and this is my excitment dealing with speed. my feeling is there is only one person on my bike and its me, ride the way i want. what do you think?
 

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Two issues that I see:

1. Unless you are totally wheelsucking, you should be OK going for the sprints and such. That said...
2. Every group ride has its standards and practices, and you should follow them, regardless of how "unjust" you might consider them.

It's unclear from your post whether it was just one guy complaining to you, or more of a group consensus. If the former, maybe ask around a bit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
pretender said:
Two issues that I see:

1. Unless you are totally wheelsucking, you should be OK going for the sprints and such. That said...
2. Every group ride has its standards and practices, and you should follow them, regardless of how "unjust" you might consider them.

It's unclear from your post whether it was just one guy complaining to you, or more of a group consensus. If the former, maybe ask around a bit.

only one guy. anytime time a pace line is used iam working with them. when no paceline than iam not one of the leaders. i do not set the pace the leaders of the group will.
 

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joel2old said:
riding in the fastest group last week i was told not to sprint and excel fast up hills if i wasn't doing my fair share of the pull. anytime there is a pace line i am involved but many times some of the stongest riders pull more by their choice. the qroup has their sprint markers and if i am in a good position and feel good i go for it. iam not making them pull more, its their choice, they are in control of their bike not me. iam 53 years old and can hang with the racers in the group if iam smart. i do not race and this is my excitment dealing with speed. my feeling is there is only one person on my bike and its me, ride the way i want. what do you think?
Tell the group-spokesperson that you're "a fifty three year old fart; and not only does age earn you some concessions, but it helps you to quickly identify the dicks, and your dick-dar indicates one at close range". Then smile and say "just kidding, I'll lead you out for the next sprint... dick" :thumbsup:
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
thinkcooper said:
Tell the group-spokesperson that you're "a fifty three year old fart; and not only does age earn you some concessions, but it helps you to quickly identify the dicks, and your dick-dar indicates one at close range". Then smile and say "just kidding, I'll lead you out for the next sprint... dick" :thumbsup:

since its the fastest group there is no chief only many indians. with my age and not into racing i don't think the younger dicks like getting beat up sometimes. iam not going to push the pace just be part of it. the quy who said something is never part of a sprint only a pace leader sometimes.
 

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Let me guess- you beat the complainer at a sprint?

It sounds like you're following the rules of the ride. I wouldn't poke the complainer like Coop suggests, just go about your ride. If he's a jerk, everyone else already knows it so there's no point bringing it up. And of course he may just not have seen you at the front when he was looking.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
ericm979 said:
Let me guess- you beat the complainer at a sprint?

It sounds like you're following the rules of the ride. I wouldn't poke the complainer like Coop suggests, just go about your ride. If he's a jerk, everyone else already knows it so there's no point bringing it up. And of course he may just not have seen you at the front when he was looking.

he does lead more than his share and has no sprint but thats his choice. he is well liked because he is a buster. i felt like telling him each bike has one rider and hes not on mine.i just told him thanks for the tip. should i continue doing what i have? thanks
 

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Keep it up and you just might get put into the weeds.
Ask around, if this guy is the ride leader, and what other people think of his "rules". If those are the "rules" of the ride, either follow them, or find another ride.

For all we have been told, this could be a "team" ride, that you have invited yourself into.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
MR_GRUMPY said:
Keep it up and you just might get put into the weeds.
Ask around, if this guy is the ride leader, and what other people think of his "rules". If those are the "rules" of the ride, either follow them, or find another ride.

For all we have been told, this could be a "team" ride, that you have invited yourself into.

not a team ride but a open club ride where many people that race come for a workout.
 

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Defining "fair share"

joel2old said:
riding in the fastest group last week i was told not to sprint and excel fast up hills if i wasn't doing my fair share of the pull. anytime there is a pace line i am involved but many times some of the stongest riders pull more by their choice. the qroup has their sprint markers and if i am in a good position and feel good i go for it. iam not making them pull more, its their choice, they are in control of their bike not me. iam 53 years old and can hang with the racers in the group if iam smart. i do not race and this is my excitment dealing with speed. my feeling is there is only one person on my bike and its me, ride the way i want. what do you think?
It's pretty fuzzy how much time you do at the front. If these "strong men" just sit up there for most of the ride, then it's a little strange of them to complain that only "they" can be allowed to sprint. However, if you only take one short pull in a 30 mile small-group ride while everyone else does a few miles on the front, then I can understand their complaint. Some people just never seem to find their way to the front very often, slipping to the back with every stop sign or turn in the road. The "guy who sits in the whole ride and then goes for the sprint" is a wide-spread complaint on group rides. If you're that guy, then expect the abuse. Otherwise, ignore this guy unless he somehow has gotten to the exalted postion of "The One Who Makes the Rules AND Calls the Fouls."
 

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If they'd like to do better in the sprint then maybe they shouldn't pull the whole ride. lol

For your part, it is a better quality of effort to sprint when you're no gassed even if it's not a simulation of a race effort. Do the workout that you want to do with the group. Ignore the complainer. He wants to work on his long pulls, you want to work on your sprint. There's no reason that can't on the same ride, it's a group ride/workout, there's nothing to "win".

If a guy puts you off the road as suggested by another poster here go back to the ride finish spot with the police and put him in court for felony hit and run.
 

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joel2old said:
riding in the fastest group last week i was told not to sprint and excel fast up hills if i wasn't doing my fair share of the pull. anytime there is a pace line i am involved but many times some of the stongest riders pull more by their choice. the qroup has their sprint markers and if i am in a good position and feel good i go for it. iam not making them pull more, its their choice, they are in control of their bike not me. iam 53 years old and can hang with the racers in the group if iam smart. i do not race and this is my excitment dealing with speed. my feeling is there is only one person on my bike and its me, ride the way i want. what do you think?
I think you are doing fine. sounds like a sore loser.

I did *kind of* feel bad once.

I found myself still with the fast AA group one night last year.

on the final stretch, I was like 4th. Massive pulls by the first 3 over 1.25 miles. After the flick of the elbow on the last guy, I took off. I didn't play fair. I wanted to see what I had.

Well, 2 people ended up surging past me ;) lol

I guess my sprint wasn't effective enough. haha
 

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Is it a race or a training ride?, if its just a training ride then really you could sprint or do the lead out and get the same sprint training workout. Its safer to do the lead out than to mix it up with the racers who may or may not have more experience. In the wash up its ego on the line. The way i look at it if im doing more than my fair share of pulls in a pace line and i still beat you in a sprint then you need to improve if not well, good ride and we will do it all again next week. are we playing for sheep stations?
 

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joel2old said:
not a team ride but a open club ride where many people that race come for a workout.
Ignore the ride cop and Grumpy and do your ride. That whole " you haven't pulled so you can't sprint" stuff is just nonsense if your gonna put a race sim bit or a sprint on a ride you can fully expect that everone will want to participate - while is annoying that some don't work (sounds like you do) some don't work in races either and yet they still sprint.
 

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It sounds like a passive aggressive way of saying, "Don't feel special about winning the sprint. You sat in. I worked. You should have won and if you didn't, you really suck."

But, ask yourself - is the ride about becoming a stronger rider? Or just winning the sprint? You can always do both. I often bury myself with no intention of winning the sprint, but I still try. Quite honestly, if it's not a race, I don't even remember who wins any sort of sprint from week to week.

If you are sitting in because you are afraid of getting dropped, but you aren't getting dropped AND you are able to sprint at the end, then I think you should be taxing yourself a bit more. Unless all you care about is winning the sprint on a group ride, which is sort of cheesy, I think.
 

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There are no winners in club rides. That's why it's called a "ride" and not a "race". Unless you've pinned a number on, anyone complains about you not working enough needs to recheck his ego because it's patently absurd.

In races, you can complain that your breakaway partner isn't working enough, and that's well within your rights. In any other situation, to complain just means that you lack a fundamental understanding of racing vs. training.

I'm a bit of a workhorse in training, but in many races I'm the wheelsucker.... in packs. If I'm in a breakaway then I'll do my fair share. In training, I'll be happy to take a 10 minute pull and then have every wheelsucker sprint behind me for the town sign. No probs. I was the one who decided to pull, and decided not to pull off. No one made that decision for me. It was also within my right to break off the front first before taking a 10 minute pull and then try my luck solo.

In any case, again, this isn't a race. Screw the pack police.
 

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Sort of agree...

The Human G-Nome said:
There are no winners in club rides. That's why it's called a "ride" and not a "race". Unless you've pinned a number on, anyone complains about you not working enough needs to recheck his ego because it's patently absurd.

In races, you can complain that your breakaway partner isn't working enough, and that's well within your rights. In any other situation, to complain just means that you lack a fundamental understanding of racing vs. training.

I'm a bit of a workhorse in training, but in many races I'm the wheelsucker.... in packs. If I'm in a breakaway then I'll do my fair share. In training, I'll be happy to take a 10 minute pull and then have every wheelsucker sprint behind me for the town sign. No probs. I was the one who decided to pull, and decided not to pull off. No one made that decision for me. It was also within my right to break off the front first before taking a 10 minute pull and then try my luck solo.

In any case, again, this isn't a race. Screw the pack police.
I sort of agree with you. There is a Saturday morning world championship race near me that I used to ride a lot. There were several sprint points on the route, and they were well known. I always, even after many years of doing the ride, would get yelled at by some of the guys I knew, who said I didn't work enough. My answer. Hey, I'm a sprinter, you all know it, and it's what I excel at. It's your job to try and drop me, and since you didn't, I'm going to sprint, and probably beat you at it.

As far as not working in a break during a race, that's up to the person individually. While it's sort of a douchey thing to not work in a break, if someone is in the break, and decides to sit on, there are several things you can do. Get together with the other break companions, and ride that sucker off of your wheel, and out of the break, or what I like to do, stop working as well, so that the break gets caught, and when caught, go again because now I'm rest from not working and waiting for the bunch to come and get me. I was once told some important advice from a crusty old racer I know. He said, "When you're in a break, only do as much work as the guy doing the least amount of work. If that means there is one guy not working, you don't work either." It's worked out well for him over the years, and it's worked for me on occasion, then again, I'm still not as strong as the crusty old dude.

And like you said, training rides, are training rides. There are some training rides that have a certain specific goal. For instance, we had a local training ride on a Wednesday night that was rotating fast pace line. That's what was ridden, and if you didn't want to ride like that, you either didn't come along, or rode off of the front by yourself, or got dropped.
 
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