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You don't want too cold of water when your body temp is way up. It can lead to esophageal spasm, abdominal pain ...etc, not so good stuff. IOW, avoid too big of temperature change.
 

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You don't want too cold of water when your body temp is way up. It can lead to esophageal spasm, abdominal pain ...etc, not so good stuff. IOW, avoid too big of temperature change.
Do you have any data on this? I always drink ice water. Never had a single issue.
On hot group rides, we stop at a convenience store and grab a bag of ice. Everyone fills their bottles with ice water. Nobody ever has issues.


Best water temperature for effective, rapid hydration: Slightly chilled (16°C / 61°F)
When it comes to actually achieving proper hydration, research on water temperature published on The National Center for Biotechnology Information (NCBI) website in 2013 showed that a water temperature of 16°C is the optimum point for dehydrated athletes or other subjects. The study argued two reasons for this:
  • This slightly chilled water temperature induces higher rates of water consumption.
  • It resulted in lower rates of sweating, increasing the body's ability to hydrate efficiently.

A little ice to partially chill the water can help it cool your core body temperature.
Studies have also found that athletes who drink chilled water tend to have lower core body temperatures, allowing them to work out longer. Drinking cold water while working out helps promote a lower heart rate and a lower core body temperature, helping to prevent athletes from feeling tired. In turn allowing them to complete longer workouts without punishing fatigue.


Best water temperature for feeling refreshed: Cold (6˚C / 43°F)
For many, the taste of the water is irrelevant, as they seek the sensation of stimulating refreshment. A research paper about oral cooling published by the NCBI in 2016 explains that when feeling overheated, cold water around 6°C provides a feeling of energizing refreshment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
The more I research this, the more I'm intrigued by this unknown Mazama brand on Amazon. Not only do they offer a decent cycling hydration pack that is insulated, they also offer an insulated 70 oz bladder. The only odd thing I see so far is that the insulated bladder costs as much as the back pack!

Unrelated to keeping liquids cool, I like it that this back pack has side pockets which would allow me to not have to use my jersey pockets but still have relatively easy access to food, etc.

* UPDATE *

Surprisingly, Amazon doesn't have the best price on the Mazama bag and insulated bladder. I just picked-up both for $58 (free shipping) when going directly to the Mazama web site. For that price, I'm willing to experiment!


 

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On my last 3 hour ride I over filled my 3L with too much ice and that was the only thing left when I got home. I used a 1L bottle to fill the bladder with ice, just under three bottles full, and then filled it up with 2L of water. At the end of the ride, I had around 1.5 bottle full of ice left. Outside temperature was in the mid 90s throughout the ride. It was a gravel ride so the distance wasn't great. Not sure how long was your saddle time but had I refilled the bladder, the ice could have lasted past the 5th hour. On road with moderate climbing, it would have lasted the 80 miles for me. Mine is a CamelBak Lobo.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Have you considered just freezing the entire bladder (leave a little room for expansion of the ice)? That will last a LOT longer than ice plus water.
I haven't done that yet but I agree that if I really want cool water later in a ride, starting with just ice would probably be best. Perhaps this might be a bit uncomfortable on the back since a frozen bladder wouldn't bend?
 

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gazing from the shadows
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One thing you can try is to get some heat reflective material and put it on the outside of your pack. That should help keep the pack cooler in the sun. you could slide a piece of the material under the water bladder so that it reflects the heat from your back but I don't know how much good that would do. I think a thin bit of something insulating would be better for that.

Most of the heat reflecting materials are pretty shiny, but you could go with white if you don’t want to blind people on the road. Even a very white piece of fabric might give you an extra hour of ice. Worth trying for proof of concept at least. I know there is a paint that reflects 98% of light, that would do a lot.

Pin some white cloth on there for the next ride, see if that does anything. If so, work that angle.

The only real way to stop conducting heat from your back to the pack is to get your pack off your back. There are packs that I have structural components to give a little air space between pack and back. I think most of those packs are overkill for what you're looking for.

Keep in mind you have it WAY better than people back in the day, even with warm water.
 

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gazing from the shadows
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I haven't done that yet but I agree that if I really want cool water later in a ride, starting with just ice would probably be best. Perhaps this might be a bit uncomfortable on the back since a frozen bladder wouldn't bend?
What, a 6 pound block of ice slamming into your spine might be a problem? HTFU!

Freeze the bladder, but don't fill it all the way. Then add just a bit of water to cushion the block.

When the bladder is filled/not full, inflate it by blowing in the valve. MAKE SURE THE FILLER CAP IS IN AIR WHEN FREEZING. Otherwise you won't be adding anything easily. The added water will free the ice block from the bladder pretty fast.

And yes, a huge block of ice will last a lot longer than cubes of the same weight. Less surface area per volume. A lot less!
 

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Best water temperature for effective, rapid hydration: Slightly chilled (16°C / 61°F)
Slightly chilled water isn't in the same league as too cold of water (being near block of ice).
Never had a single issue.
On hot group rides, we stop at a convenience store and grab a bag of ice. Everyone fills their bottles with ice water. Nobody ever has issues.
Taking little sip at a time and gulping down aren't the same thing.
 

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Slightly chilled water isn't in the same league as too cold of water (being near block of ice).
Do you have any data on what is 'too cold' to cause the issues you described?

You skipped this...
Best water temperature for feeling refreshed: Cold (6˚C / 43°F)
For many, the taste of the water is irrelevant, as they seek the sensation of stimulating refreshment. A research paper about oral cooling published by the NCBI in 2016 explains that when feeling overheated, cold water around 6°C provides a feeling of energizing refreshment.​

Near a block of ice? I (and others) freeze water bottles. You can't get your water any colder than that. Never had or heard of issues.


Taking little sip at a time and gulping down aren't the same thing.
After a hard climb on a hot day I'll gulp water from my bottle as fast as it'll come out. Neve had or heard of issues.

So ....do you have data or not?
 

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Is this something like with my sensitive tooth? On the bike, trainer and otherwise, my iced cold water doesn't register but seem to bother me on the couch. Oh one more data point, never a bother with ice cold beer.
 

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Do you have any data on what is 'too cold' to cause the issues you described?

You skipped this...
Best water temperature for feeling refreshed: Cold (6˚C / 43°F)
For many, the taste of the water is irrelevant, as they seek the sensation of stimulating refreshment. A research paper about oral cooling published by the NCBI in 2016 explains that when feeling overheated, cold water around 6°C provides a feeling of energizing refreshment.​
In that link which experimented the oral sensation of water temperature,
"Experimental protocol Subjects were asked to refrain from eating and drinking for twelve hours before the test session. Upon arrival at the laboratory, they were weighed and asked to eat a standardized breakfast consisting of white bread toast (1 slice under 75 Kg body weight then an extra ½ slice per additional 25 Kg), spread with jelly, which all subjects consumed; no liquid was offered at this time. The purpose of this standardized breakfast was to increase thirst further. After a 30 minute period of rest in the testing room, subjects were asked to evaluate the level of their thirst on a computerized labeled magnitude scale (LMS). Then they drank 400 mL of an experimental beverage. They were asked to drink the whole volume in less than 5 min. After a 5 min rest period, participants were offered an excess of RT, still, unflavored water to drink from a jug until they no longer wished to continue. The volume of RT water consumed from the jug was measured and recorded."

Would have been more interesting if they experimented cyclists during and after ride on a hot day.

Near a block of ice? I (and others) freeze water bottles. You can't get your water any colder than that. Never had or heard of issues.

After a hard climb on a hot day I'll gulp water from my bottle as fast as it'll come out. Neve had or heard of issues.

So ....do you have data or not?
Did you check the temperature of "too cold of" water that you gulped down? Without such data, it's hard to make objective case, isn't it?
As for my anecdote, I did have issue with stomach pain when gulped down icy cold water right after an intense exercise on a hot day.
 

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Did you check the temperature of "too cold of" water that you gulped down? Without such data, it's hard to make objective case, isn't it?​
As for my anecdote, I did have issue with stomach pain when gulped down icy cold water right after an intense exercise on a hot day.
I
You made the claim...
You don't want too cold of water when your body temp is way up. It can lead to esophageal spasm, abdominal pain ...etc, not so good stuff.

That sounds like a dangerous medical diagnosis. So do you have data to support it? Or are you saying that's an anecdote of one?
 

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That sounds like a dangerous medical diagnosis. So do you have data to support it? Or are you saying that's an anecdote of one?
My experience with stomach pain, a.k.a. abdominal pain after gulping down icy cold water right after an intense exercise on a hot day is personal description using common words. As for esophageal spasm, that would sound more medical depending on who is reading but it was general vicinity where my pain was. I did see some description of the effects of drinking icy cold water on Google search while ago.
 

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Yup, makes sense... especially if one's body heat is helping to keep the water warm.

Anyone have suggestions for a somewhat minimalist hydration backpack that does have decent insulation? By "minimalist", I mean that I don't want a full-blown backpack with 400 zippers and a ton of storage (I have CamelBak Mule for that.) For cycling, just one pocket is fine. The CamelBak Rogue looks ideal but makes no mention of insulation, making me think I should check-out other brands... but so far, the only brands that list insulation are some off-brands sold on Amazon, like this Mazama (?) one.
Hi, I'm on my 2nd Rogue, live in the desert and it works fine. It's small enough, with some raised sections on the back to allow some airflow. I don't chill my water much, but you can freeze a 1/2-full bladder, of just keep it in the fridge overnight, before loading w ice. One thing that can be a help is the insulated hose that you drink from. This helps keep the water that stays in the hose from getting real warm, (may not keep it cold). The Roque has enough room for arm-warmers, pump, tool kit, lite gloves and more, but it's not very wide, so it feels light on the back, (compared to something like the Mule). Personally, (& I've trained in 100+ temps for 30 yrs.), the protection from the direct sun on your back, outweighs the small amount of decreased evap-cooling, and, I drink as much as I want, never being concerned about running out.
I do also carry a large bottled with electolytes on my bike that I've pre-chilled. Sure, you give up a bit of aero, but it makes you stronger!
 

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I road an 80 mile ride today in 90 degree weather and started-out with my CamelBak packed with ice water. By the time I used-up my two bike-mounted water bottles (yucky warm water) and started into the CamelBak, it was full of warm, plastic-tasting water as though I had never put ice in it. That got me wondering... should I even bother trying to keep water cold on long, hot rides? Is it even physically possible?

I did a search of these forums for this same topic and in 2008, a rider mentioned having a hydration backpack that had an insulated backpack that featured some magical reflective material that actually kept his water cold for nearly two hours. Unfortunately, the product no longer exists and I have not been able to find something similar in 2021.

Have any of you been successful and keeping relatively large quantities of water cool over long rides?

I'm considering buying a few thin freezer gel packs and putting them in the same pocket that the water bladder goes in in hopes of keeping the water cool, but I'm not sure if that'll just leave me disappointed and having to haul around slightly more weight and bulk for no gain.

Just thinking out loud here. I haven't tried this, but I do love my Hydroflask at work and post-rides. It stays cold for hours and hours....even on hot days in the car with the windows up. Maybe remove the bladder and carry (2) 24oz Hydroflask water bottles? Sure there's a weight penalty and you'd have to stop riding to drink it, BUT I'm willing to bet you'll have cold water for the entire route.
 

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I’ve never used a hydration pack so I can’t speak on that.
I use the 24 ounce polar insulated bottles. I can easily go 3-4 hours and still have cold liquids at the end of my ride. I freeze some of my hydration drink in the bottle and then top them off in the morning with the drink that has been in the fridge. It depends on the temp outside on how much I freeze in the bottles. Today’s ride was 85-90* and it was still cold at the end of my ride. My first bottle I freeze about 1/3 full and my second bottle 1/2 to 2/3 depends how hot it’s going to be.
Been doing this for years and always have cold liquids on my rides.
 

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I’ve never used a hydration pack so I can’t speak on that.
I use the 24 ounce polar insulated bottles. I can easily go 3-4 hours and still have cold liquids at the end of my ride. I freeze some of my hydration drink in the bottle and then top them off in the morning with the drink that has been in the fridge. It depends on the temp outside on how much I freeze in the bottles. Today’s ride was 85-90* and it was still cold at the end of my ride. My first bottle I freeze about 1/3 full and my second bottle 1/2 to 2/3 depends how hot it’s going to be.
Been doing this for years and always have cold liquids on my rides.
I know a couple of freaks like you that can last on a quart of water on said 3-4 hour rides, and two of them never carry more than a single bottle. If I'm riding in those temps I'm slamming a 27oz bottle every hour.
 
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