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My friend is deciding between the bike he has always dreamed about, Colnago C50, and a Seven, probably Ti/Carbon model. He's been riding a Trek full carbon frameset for many years. Both are crazy expensive to the same degree. I think he's better off with the custom frame but he's been wanting the Colnago forever and may never be happy with the Seven. Any recommedations?
 

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Colnago's come in 1cm increments. Unless he has unusual dimensions he should be able to find a Colnago that fits fine without having to go custom. The C-50 is a terrific ride. I absolutely love mine. It is stiff and smooth. The weight is respectible but not a weight weenie by any means. Plus, I like the ride of carbon way better than Ti.
 

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Apples and oranges...

Seven frames rarely come back to the owner built the way they wanted it. The fine folks at Seven seem to feel that they know best what geos people should ride. Of the dozen or so that I've ordered for people over the years, 2 have come back built the way the customer wanted. And that was because he dictated what he wanted all of the geos to be...no going through their "custom questionnaire" BS. Mine came back with a 1.2cm longer top tube than expected and the head angle was way steeper than I wanted. I sent it back. Let them eat it!

If he is considering those two and only those two, get the Colnago and don't look back.
 

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You're Not the Boss of Me
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Grinder said:
My friend is deciding between the bike he has always dreamed about, Colnago C50, and a Seven, probably Ti/Carbon model. He's been riding a Trek full carbon frameset for many years. Both are crazy expensive to the same degree. I think he's better off with the custom frame but he's been wanting the Colnago forever and may never be happy with the Seven. Any recommedations?

Sounds like someone who is just saying "I want to spend gobs of money." I mean, you are talking about totally different kinds of bikes... this isn't Odonata vs. Cielo vs. Ottrott or something where folks can debate among similar bikes.

Does he want an all carbon 'Nag or a ti/carbon combo? I'm puzzled that he hasn't resolved that basic question for himself.
 

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merckx56 said:
Apples and oranges...

Seven frames rarely come back to the owner built the way they wanted it. The fine folks at Seven seem to feel that they know best what geos people should ride. Of the dozen or so that I've ordered for people over the years, 2 have come back built the way the customer wanted. And that was because he dictated what he wanted all of the geos to be...no going through their "custom questionnaire" BS. Mine came back with a 1.2cm longer top tube than expected and the head angle was way steeper than I wanted. I sent it back. Let them eat it!

If he is considering those two and only those two, get the Colnago and don't look back.
that's interesting. mine came back with about a 2cm longer TT and about 1cm less drop than I expected. the STA and seat tube were about what I was thinking they would be. so far, no complaints except that I didn't know my shoulder was screwed up when I ordered the bike, so I'll be getting a 1cm shorter stem. I actually have very little drop, which I found rather odd. however, I have really short legs, so I suppose it makes some sense at least. if I ever get another custom bike from another manufacturer, I'll post any differences.
 

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Just my $0.02 but I hate buyer's remorse. If he wants a Colnago then buy a Colnago - if he needs to save up then that's probably a worthwhile wait since it'll be the ride he's wanted. It'd be a shame if he paid that much and still wished he had the Colnago.

I have a C50HP and it's an awesome machine.

btw - so is my new Cervelo Soloist Carbon which I LOVE!!
 

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eminence grease
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Seven's are darn nice bikes that come with a philosophy.

C50s are simply darn nice bikes.

If it was my money, I'd choose the Colnago, which is a easy for me to say, since I did. I love my C50.

In the world of titanium, there are many, many choices in addition to Seven. I've often thought about having one, but I've restrained myself as I hate the local dealer. I have a Moots and I have a Davidson and those are but two of the top shelf competitors. If I was shopping Seven, I'd also shop those two and add Serotta (since it too comes with a philosophy free of charge.)

From a "forever bike" standpoint, titanium has a purported advantage. But for sheer sex appeal, few beat the C50.

He'll be happy in either case.
 

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690MBCOMMANDO said:
Just my $0.02 but I hate buyer's remorse. If he wants a Colnago then buy a Colnago - if he needs to save up then that's probably a worthwhile wait since it'll be the ride he's wanted. It'd be a shame if he paid that much and still wished he had the Colnago.

I have a C50HP and it's an awesome machine.

btw - so is my new Cervelo Soloist Carbon which I LOVE!!
Your posted pics of the Soloist really have me thinking....if you had to get rid of one or the other (C50 or soloist carbon), which would you surrender??
 

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merckx56 said:
Apples and oranges...

Seven frames rarely come back to the owner built the way they wanted it. The fine folks at Seven seem to feel that they know best what geos people should ride. Of the dozen or so that I've ordered for people over the years, 2 have come back built the way the customer wanted. And that was because he dictated what he wanted all of the geos to be...no going through their "custom questionnaire" BS. Mine came back with a 1.2cm longer top tube than expected and the head angle was way steeper than I wanted. I sent it back. Let them eat it!

If he is considering those two and only those two, get the Colnago and don't look back.
This is a true statement. Ironically, I sold a custom Seven Axiom for a C50 last year. Hands down, the Colnago is a superior bike for me in every respect, including fit. I was pretty specific about my riding with Seven -- including that I would be using the bike in crits. But the custom geometry had marginal handling and the bike felt very dead out of the saddle. The only thing you get to check is whether the bike feels good from an overall fit standpoint on a fit cycle before they lock your measurement. That tells you nothing on handling, stiffness and overall road feel. If I was on a 75-100 mile team ride it was great, but not for a more aggressive riding style. My Colnago is much stiffer out of the saddle, as comfortable (and that's saying something vs. Ti) and the handling is simply perfect. Seven builds a beautiful bike, but the price has gotten very high (20 percent jump in just the last 18 months) and the custom fit was of no real use for me.
 

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merckx56 said:
Seven frames rarely come back to the owner built the way they wanted it. The fine folks at Seven seem to feel that they know best what geos people should ride. Of the dozen or so that I've ordered for people over the years, 2 have come back built the way the customer wanted. And that was because he dictated what he wanted all of the geos to be...no going through their "custom questionnaire" BS.
Holy schiznit, Batman... this post could have been written by me!!!

I just dropped an unethical amount of money on an '06 Aerios with "custom" measurements. I placed my order with a shop in SE CT back in September. Wait, first a little backdrop here: I started racing in '88 (when I lived in CO), and my last "race" bike was custom built by Tracy Fowler (worked w/ Rich Gangle for some time) and the Fowler fit like a glove (hmm... 708 tubing!). I moved to NYC and sold my soul... fast forward several years. I have been riding a square Ritchey Logic (56cm ST & TT) but I had to bastardize the fit since my Fowler was a 55cm ST and 57cm TT with an 110 stem. Angles were laid back (call it 73*). I gave all of this info, in addition to the measurements taken at the CT shop to the fine people at Seven Cycles.

Seven took my measurements and decided that my 70cm seat height should be jacked up to 74.5cm (which w/ a 172.5 cranck EXCEEDS my freakin' inseem when at the bottom of the stroke). I got to the first "fit kit" to confirm #s and everything was wrong. This was after the $1,000 deposit cleared the bank and I was freakin' out. I was on the phone with some arrogant little jerk a half dozen times in the coming weeks telling him what I wanted. He said research (from the 70s!!) had shown that the high seat position improves O2 efficiency yada yada. I said, "I don't care, build the bike how I want."

After that, he was slow to return calls and finally succumbed to my wishes, or so he said. The shop got final fit #s and I rode the fitkit bike w/ the 70cm seat height that I wanted.

My first (and only) ride on the $8,000 albatros was this past Saturday (I still ride the Ritchey at night or in rain). My seat height was 72.5cm, the reach from the saddle to the bars was 3.5cm longer than I'd asked for and the whole ride I was cursing. I was cursing Seven Cycles for their poor customer service and for the arrogance that the trump "10,000 frames sold", but I was cursing myself for not doing more work on the purchase.

Couple the arrogance of Seven with the sloppiness of the CT shop (phuquer charged me $2k for D/A build kit w/o wheels!!!). There is a chirp in the rear end and the shop put on a seatpost that has offset, though the build order said NO OFFSET. I measured everything on the bike last night, and reconfigured as much as I could with the stuff on there. I dropped the seat, pushed it forward (until I get proper post) and dropped the bars.

But WTF is up with those people at Seven? When Fowler built my bike up in '90, there were ZERO issues. It was right from day-one. If I could get my money back for the Seven, I would jump at it.

I highly recommend that people NOT buy from Seven, or at least avoid the custom build that I was stupid enough to pay up for.

Fool me once, shame on, shame on...
 

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Ti

Hello:

I was wondering how the ride of your Moots and/or Davidson compares (i.e. how much better) with the ride of your less expensive Sampson Kalispell? I, too, have the latter and was wondering what I - in the way of ride quality - I was missing.

Thank you.
 

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eminence grease
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Howard3 said:
Hello:

I was wondering how the ride of your Moots and/or Davidson compares (i.e. how much better) with the ride of your less expensive Sampson Kalispell? I, too, have the latter and was wondering what I - in the way of ride quality - I was missing.

Thank you.
Wow, no one has asked about my Kalispell in a long, long time.

The biggest difference - the Sampson is a little bit whippier than the Moots and the Davidson. The Moots is one stiff bike, at least under my pedaling. It rides nicely, but it has a very solid feel to me. The Davidson rides a bit more like a steel bike - very smooth and not as solid as the Moots. Part of that may be the 32H wheels I have on the Davidson (vs. AC350s on the Moots) but overall, it's just a shade more comfortable.

I've always thought the Sampson was a bit springy - not super solid, but still affording a nice ride. I converted it to a single speed last year, and will more than likely retire it this spring after 6000 miles of use. It was my first road bike and still holds a special place for me. But compared to the more modern bikes I own, it's not as great to ride as it once was.
 

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Grinder said:
My friend is deciding between the bike he has always dreamed about, Colnago C50, and a Seven, probably Ti/Carbon model. He's been riding a Trek full carbon frameset for many years. Both are crazy expensive to the same degree. I think he's better off with the custom frame but he's been wanting the Colnago forever and may never be happy with the Seven. Any recommedations?
That's kinda like asking whether you would prefer a BMW or a Porsche. Either one will be a good bike. Which one calls to you more?
 

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Kalispell

Hello Terry:

I, too, agree that the Kalispell is comfortable to ride. To me, though, the acceleration on the Kalispell is somewhat lacking. (Possibly energy is dissipated due to the low tensile strength of CP GR4 ti tubing?). It seems that my speed seems to be about 2-3 MPH slower than it should be. While the bike weighs about 19 pounds, my old 1979 Raleigh Super Course (Reynolds 531 tubing) - recently converted to a single speed and now weighing 23 pounds - seems to accelerate more quickly.

Thanks for answering my question.
 

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That's interesting, because almost all of my personal speed bests are on the Sampson. Sadly, that's probably due to my advancing age. :D

I think you'd be surprised and pleased to try another ti bike. I was.
 

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Stem

Hello Terry:

Your statement - almost all of my personal speed bests are on the Sampson - matches up quite well, at least when compared to my lack of acceleration statement made earlier, with the May '98 Bicycling review of the Kalispell where they said "it feels as if the frame stores energy to boost each pedal stroke". So what to do?

I replaced my 10 cm Forgie stem which was flipped up with an 11 cm Forgie stem which is basically now lying horizontal. My reach is now about 2.3 cm longer. The ride is now swifter as I apparently was sitting much too upright with my former setup. In addition, the price of the stem was quite good.

http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=17912
 
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