Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 20 of 23 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi, new to the forum. Read a lot, but first time posting. Building a steel frame Colnago master art decor with a 9 speed campagnolo veloce group set. Looks like 9 speeds used the ER 500 cable set, which was updated and replaced when the ultrashift system was introduced. I'm probably misstating this. Bottom line...which cable set will work with my group set? Finding that older ER 500 set is very difficult. Any recommendations on other brands? Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
Hi, new to the forum. Read a lot, but first time posting. Building a steel frame Colnago master art decor with a 9 speed campagnolo veloce group set. Looks like 9 speeds used the ER 500 cable set, which was updated and replaced when the ultrashift system was introduced. I'm probably misstating this. Bottom line...which cable set will work with my group set? Finding that older ER 500 set is very difficult. Any recommendations on other brands? Thanks!
You can use the current cable set with ferrules on the derailleur housing at the shifters and at the frame. The brake housing did not change and does not need ferrules.

Other brands are not really as good. And don't say "Campagnolo". If you have to use something else it must be Campagnolo compatible. Not the other brand.
 

·
'brifter' is f'ing stupid
Joined
·
15,564 Posts
No brake housing ferrules at the lever, but obviously you'll use them at the frame end of the housing...as long as they fit in the housing stops. Can't remember for sure but I think they do on the Colnago.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
No brake housing ferrules at the lever, but obviously you'll use them at the frame end of the housing...as long as they fit in the housing stops. Can't remember for sure but I think they do on the Colnago.
Ferrules (and we all know what they do, right?) have no purpose on a Campy brake housing.
 

·
'brifter' is f'ing stupid
Joined
·
15,564 Posts
Ferrules (and we all know what they do, right?) have no purpose on a Campy brake housing.
How so? It's no different than any other brake housing. If the housing stops on the frame are sized to fit ferrules, you use ferrules. Doesn't matter what type of housing it is.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
How so? It's no different than any other brake housing. If the housing stops on the frame are sized to fit ferrules, you use ferrules. Doesn't matter what type of housing it is.
Clue, It's not for appearance.

I just disassembled my friend's brake setup where ferrules had destroyed the housing because they were too small. But someone was convinced that they were needed.

I repeat. Ferrules are not necessary on brake housing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
This thread has potential. I haven't seen a ferrule argument for a few years.
well you would be wrong there. every 6 months min.

Look, on brake housings, if everything fits, and it makes you happy, then no problem.

Like wearing a manssiere. It's not really necessary but if you need the support.............
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
From the Campagnolo Tech Manual:
View attachment 319926
That's interesting, though as happens with Campy instructions, translation can be hard to figure out.

Here we have 2 different terms: "housing lead end" and "sheath terminal". Let's assume for the moment that they both mean "ferrule".

Normally the front brake housing goes straight from the lever to brake, so I'm not sure how the frame comes into it.

Additionally, Campy don't supply brake housing ferrules with their cablesets, and don't even make one I don't think, which makes the instruction a little odd as it would imply using a non-Campy part :eek:

I'm obviously not a pro (and therefore should not even be looking at the tech manual :D), but I have worked on a wide variety of frames, and never needed to use brake housing ferrules. But it could happen if a frame has outsized brake cable stops I suppose. And might look better.

I checked the instructions that come with the cables, and no reference to use of brake housing ferrules there.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the discussion. My take away is that 1) I can use the newer campy cable sets, and 2) no need for ferrule in the brake housing.

Follow up question...and it's Colnago-specific. The top tube has internal routing for the rear brake cable. I've read somewhere that the cable diameters have changed over time (can't find now where I read it). Are newer brake cable housings a thicker diameter? Concern here being that the brake cable won't fit through the internal routing.

Put quite simply, will the cable set linked here work (hopefully found cheaper elsewhere)?

https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-U...1338174&sr=8-10&keywords=campagnolo+cable+set
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
Thanks for the discussion. My take away is that 1) I can use the newer campy cable sets, and 2) no need for ferrule in the brake housing.

Follow up question...and it's Colnago-specific. The top tube has internal routing for the rear brake cable. I've read somewhere that the cable diameters have changed over time (can't find now where I read it). Are newer brake cable housings a thicker diameter? Concern here being that the brake cable won't fit through the internal routing.

Put quite simply, will the cable set linked here work (hopefully found cheaper elsewhere)?

https://www.amazon.com/Campagnolo-U...1338174&sr=8-10&keywords=campagnolo+cable+set
I'm used to paying in the $30 range so I'd keep looking. Wiggle? Ribble? $31 here wiggle.com | Campagnolo Ultrashift Gear and Brake Cable Set | Gear Cables

As to your first question - no worries. The brake housing has been the same diameter for ever. It's the derailleur housing got slightly smaller. I'm guessing that's you meant to ask.
Cables did not change in diameter.
 

·
'brifter' is f'ing stupid
Joined
·
15,564 Posts
I find that nearly every...we're talking 99%...of the frame that I build need ferrules on the brake housing so it fits into the housing stop properly. I know that there are no ferrules included in the Campy cable/housing kit. They do included shift housing ferrules, most likely because they are slightly different size than standard 4.0mm shift housing. They used to be 4.5mm, now they're 4.1mm. Whether they're really needed can be debated all day, but the other 2 manufacturers provide brake ferrules and the Trek Madone (for one) definitely specifies them. I'd say if there is room for them it's always better to use them.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks, everyone for the thoughts. I bought this at merlin cycles in the UK:

1 x Campagnolo Ultra-Shift & Power-Shift Cable Set - White @ USD 32.32 = USD 32.32

Will follow up once I begin the install.

Thanks again!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
That's interesting, though as happens with Campy instructions, translation can be hard to figure out.

Here we have 2 different terms: "housing lead end" and "sheath terminal". Let's assume for the moment that they both mean "ferrule".

Normally the front brake housing goes straight from the lever to brake, so I'm not sure how the frame comes into it.

Additionally, Campy don't supply brake housing ferrules with their cablesets, and don't even make one I don't think, which makes the instruction a little odd as it would imply using a non-Campy part :eek:

I'm obviously not a pro (and therefore should not even be looking at the tech manual :D), but I have worked on a wide variety of frames, and never needed to use brake housing ferrules. But it could happen if a frame has outsized brake cable stops I suppose. And might look better.

I checked the instructions that come with the cables, and no reference to use of brake housing ferrules there.
Poor translations are the bane of Campagnolo's instructions. I swear that they run their instructions thru Google Translate and use the results without any additional checking.

I'm not a factory trained technician, but I have attended several of Campagnolo's seminars/classes, the most recent being this last spring. When talking about the commands (brake and mechanical units) they always emphasis that no ferrule is to be used on the command end, but they MUST be used anywhere the housing is cut such as a frame stop, adjuster, and on the actuator (brake or derailleur) itself.

I've had mixed results on whether the full cable kits include brake ferrules. The last 2 kits I used included them, but 1 I just ordered for the shop didn't. Typical Campagnolo consistency.

The cable kits don't say anything about the ferrules, and neither do the derailleur, brake or commands included instructions. AFAIK the only place they mention them is in the tech manuals for the commands, the most recent being the 2017 Power-Shift ErgoPower Commands - Mechanical Units
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
and on the actuator (brake or derailleur) itself.
Don't you just love a good ferrule discussion?

Anyway I'm going to take exception to the use of ferrules at the brake, Because it's physically impossible to fit a 6 mm dia ferrule into a 5.25 mm dia brake adjuster.

I just measured.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
427 Posts
My take on Campy brake cabling and ferrules, speaking as an amateur mechanic who has built and worked on a number of different Campy bikes:

1) NO ferrules at the levers.
2) NO ferrules at the brake calipers.
3) But ferrules are needed/helpful for the cut in rear brake housing along (or inside of) the top tube.

I built a bike without ferrules where where the rear brake entered and exited the top tube (since Campy provided none) and the shifting was super mushy. I then added ferrules and the bike has braked wonderfully ever since.

I think that both at the lever and the caliper Campy is basically providing the equivalent of a "stop" for the housing - built into the components themselves. But most frames, as cxwrench has said, will need ferrules for the rear brake where the housing is cut.

EDITED to emphasize that I was ONLY taking about brake cables, not derailleurs.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,492 Posts
Ferrules are needed on derailleur housing in the previous generations of shifters - 2008 and before.

As for ferrules on the rear brake housing at the frame stops - it definitely varies by frame. For sure I have frames where a 6 mm ferrule won't fit. And I still maintain that if it was important, a) Campy would provide them, and b) Campy would provide instructions in the user instructions. They do don't do either of these things.
 

·
'brifter' is f'ing stupid
Joined
·
15,564 Posts
Ferrules are needed on derailleur housing in the previous generations of shifters - 2008 and before.

As for ferrules on the rear brake housing at the frame stops - it definitely varies by frame. For sure I have frames where a 6 mm ferrule won't fit. And I still maintain that if it was important, a) Campy would provide them, and b) Campy would provide instructions in the user instructions. They do don't do either of these things.
My guess is that since a standard brake ferrule fits fine on Campy brake housing they don't need to provide them. Since a standard 4.0mm shift ferrule doesn't fit exactly they do provide them.

I would never build a bike without ferrules at the frame housing stops if they fit. That's just shoddy workmanship. I know they aren't need at the lever end nor at the brake end, but if the frame stops have room they should be used. To say they aren't ever needed or should be used is wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
518 Posts
Ferrules are needed on derailleur housing in the previous generations of shifters - 2008 and before.

As for ferrules on the rear brake housing at the frame stops - it definitely varies by frame. For sure I have frames where a 6 mm ferrule won't fit. And I still maintain that if it was important, a) Campy would provide them, and b) Campy would provide instructions in the user instructions. They do don't do either of these things.
Ferrules are still required on the derailleur housing - see the 2017 tech manual page below.
View attachment 319932

If you want the actual Campagnolo 6mm ferrules they are P/N 10-CG-CS011. Good luck finding them.

I went back and looked at the Potenza presentation and it is clearly wrong. It shows the Potenza brakes require a ferrule at the brake adjuster but Potenza use the same brake adjuster as Chorus (BR-VL021,) and the Chorus adjuster won't take a ferrule. The joys of release presentations.

BTW, the tech manuals are on the Campagnolo website. This is the most accurate information on how to install and adjust Campagnolo components. They don't hide this information.
 
1 - 20 of 23 Posts
Top