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I have been on Cont Ultra Gatorskins now for about a year and want to explore other tires. My main reason for going to Gatorskins was due to the flat protection and they have served me well with this aspect. I would like to explore other tires to see if there are any performance issue improvements that I would notice...ie Mich Pro3s.

I am just after 100K rides and really no actually racing. Weight of 160 lbs and approx 20 mph average.

Any feedback would be appreciated.
 

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At the same pressure and on the same wheels, Gatorskins are very harsh compared to 4000S or Pro3. Pro3 is the nicest riding of the three, slightly better than the 4000S. I've only had them on for a month, so I can't speak for long term durability. I've had one flat, but it was a sharp piece of wire, I don't think any of the three would have fared better.
 

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android said:
At the same pressure and on the same wheels, Gatorskins are very harsh compared to 4000S or Pro3. Pro3 is the nicest riding of the three, slightly better than the 4000S. I've only had them on for a month, so I can't speak for long term durability. I've had one flat, but it was a sharp piece of wire, I don't think any of the three would have fared better.
Oh please. The concept of "tire harshness" is a comical idea created by marketing execs to sell expensive tires with exotic compounds like "Black Chili."
 

· A guy from Norway
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PigmyRacer said:
Oh please. The concept of "tire harshness" is a comical idea created by marketing execs to sell expensive tires with exotic compounds like "Black Chili."
Then I suggest U try a pair of lighter cotton/silk casings without puncture protection.
Obviously U haven't tried nice tires :)

But I agree. There's a lot of marketing involved here. I have $17 tubulars riding nicer than
conti 4000 and Gators. They don't last as long, not as light but cost $100 less
 

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PigmyRacer said:
Oh please. The concept of "tire harshness" is a comical idea created by marketing execs to sell expensive tires with exotic compounds like "Black Chili."
No, that would be the idea of harshness due to rims or spokes. The tire is about the only thing that actually can affect your ride. They don't all ride the same. If they did, I'd be on Gatorskins still since they're half the price.
 

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Measures?

Lectron said:
Then I suggest U try a pair of lighter cotton/silk casings without puncture protection. Obviously U haven't tried nice tires :) But I agree. There's a lot of marketing involved here. I have $17 tubulars riding nicer than conti 4000 and Gators. They don't last as long, not as light but cost $100 less
It's nice that you believe this stuff, but both MAVIC and Bicycle Quarterly have independently tested a rider's ability to "feel" differences and shown that it's just not there. Any time your $17 tubulars feel better than a Conti GP4000 it's either the wheel (if it's real, which is doubtful) or your mind. As Erik Zabel says: "I can't tell the difference." And when/if you can tell "a" difference, you can't tell which is "better." Just referencing facts :)
 

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Kerry Irons said:
It's nice that you believe this stuff, but both MAVIC and Bicycle Quarterly have independently tested a rider's ability to "feel" differences and shown that it's just not there. Any time your $17 tubulars feel better than a Conti GP4000 it's either the wheel (if it's real, which is doubtful) or your mind. As Erik Zabel says: "I can't tell the difference." And when/if you can tell "a" difference, you can't tell which is "better." Just referencing facts :)

There could be other factors why one may get a different feel from a tubular (or any other tire) is the profile. Most tubulars are more round than clinchers which can affect handling and overall feel. How was this "riders test" performed and are we going by "their" perceptions as well?

I'm being (politically:p) neutral and not arguing either way but the mentioned test doesn't seem to be scientifically conclusive either.
 

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PigmyRacer said:
Oh please. The concept of "tire harshness" is a comical idea created by marketing execs to sell expensive tires with exotic compounds like "Black Chili."
Have you tried riding these two tires (Conti Gator & Conti GP4000S) back-to-back before? Perhaps you should try that and get back to us.
 

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I went from Vittoria Rubinos to the Open Corsa Evo CX and there is indeed a difference.
Whether it's worth the $ and the reduced tire life is another matter entirely...
 

· A guy from Norway
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Kerry Irons said:
It's nice that you believe this stuff, but both MAVIC and Bicycle Quarterly have independently tested a rider's ability to "feel" differences and shown that it's just not there. Any time your $17 tubulars feel better than a Conti GP4000 it's either the wheel (if it's real, which is doubtful) or your mind. As Erik Zabel says: "I can't tell the difference." And when/if you can tell "a" difference, you can't tell which is "better." Just referencing facts :)
Can't tell whitch is better? Maybe, but I can sure tell what I prefer.
Between a 4000 and a pro2race, nope. Between, say Tufo <215 and
a good tire Oh, yes. Big time.

Just referencing facts :)
 

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The testing

The Green Hour said:
There could be other factors why one may get a different feel from a tubular (or any other tire) is the profile. Most tubulars are more round than clinchers which can affect handling and overall feel. How was this "riders test" performed and are we going by "their" perceptions as well?

I'm being (politically:p) neutral and not arguing either way but the mentioned test doesn't seem to be scientifically conclusive either.
The BQ tests did roll-down test of rolling resistance with careful timing and also asked the test riders which tires were faster. No correlation between rider feelings and actual measured results. In general, harsher tires "felt" faster. The MAVIC tests asked for rider input on wheel stiffness and compared that to actual lab measurements. Again, no correlation. The tubular vs. clincher question is a very difficult one to test for, since the wheels can never be the same for different tires. The fact that many people can't feel the difference while others are sure they can suggests weak correlations. Some people claim they can hear the difference between different speaker cables, but blind tests prove they can't. Blind tests are hard to conduct with cycling equipment.
 

· A guy from Norway
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Kerry Irons said:
........In general, harsher tires "felt" faster.......
And a harsh or over inflated tire usually do, but as with a car without any
suspension it's not very good for speed. Neither is it very comfortable.

Carefully conducted roll-down tests has also proved big differences.
It's not very difficult to find 'internet science' supporting your believe.

Pass it on to myth-busters kerry, and I'll promise to watch the
show. Until then I presume I'm right on this matter. :)
 

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I really think it boils down to personal preference and comfort, like bike fit for the handlebars - what feels more comfortable to you will feel less comfortable to someone else. Tire pressure also plays a big role in this, and even then that's hard to compare due to different ambient temperatures changing the measured pressure.
I recently changed to a lighter wheel, and noticed a major difference in spin up, and smoothness of the ride due to the bearings - my average speed stayed the same as it was with the old wheel.
 

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Citations?

Lectron said:
Carefully conducted roll-down tests has also proved big differences. It's not very difficult to find 'internet science' supporting your believe.
Carefully conducted roll-down tests have also shown clinchers are lower resistance. Bicyle Quarterly magazine, Volume 5, Number 1. What's your citation? In my experience, when there are different tests that show different results, the most likely result is that either we don't know how to test the desired parameter or there really is no substantive difference.
 

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I know it's not double-blind testing or anything, but I had ridden the Pro2Races and switched to the 4000s (not the 4000S) because I heard the Contis had better flat protection while still offering a good ride quality. I immediately felt a harsher ride quality with the Contis compared with the Michelins. I rode them for a while and, after finding no improvement in flat protection, switched back to the Pro2Race, which had a noticeable improvement in ride quality. This was all with the same bike, same wheels, same tubes, same tire pressures, and same roads.

Again, subjective, nonblinded findings, but to me there were substantial.
 
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