Convert Giant tubeless set up

aclinjury said:

Don't go bigger than 28mm tire as anything bigger than 28mm will feel slow and soft (not for fast racing on street tarmac).

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Kerry Irons said:

It might FEEL slower but there are plenty of studies showing that for a compliant casing tire, it won't BE slower. The FEEL faster mindset is how we got to running 120 psi with narrow road tires at the expense of traction, comfort, and tire wear with zero benefit for speed.

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aclinjury said:

The issue with tires bigger than 32c is that these tires tend to be thick, people who buy 32c tires buy them for gravel, and as such, they're thick. Manufacturers don't make 32c+ tire with thin casing, they just don't because nobody will buy a soft and thinly cased 32+c tire.

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700C x 32 Stampede Pass Tire

www.renehersecycles.com

aclinjury said:

Manufacturers don't make 32c+ tire with thin casing, they just don't because nobody will buy a soft and thinly cased 32+c tire.

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Continental Grand Prix 5000 Road Tire 700 x 32mm - Black [101626] at BikeTiresDirect

Continental Grand Prix 5000 Clincher road tire. Available in 700 x 23, 25, 28, 32 and 650b x 25, 28mm. [101626]

www.biketiresdirect.com

Schwalbe PRO ONE 700c Road Tire (HS493) 700 x 32mm - Transparent Tan [11654246] at BikeTiresDirect

The Schwalbe 2020 PRO ONE 700c Road Tire HS493). Tube Type. High-tech V-Guard protection fabric, this Pro One is the benchmark for tube type road bike tires. [11654246]

www.biketiresdirect.com

Vittoria Corsa G2.0 Road Tire 700 x 32mm - Black [11A00347] at BikeTiresDirect

The Vittoria Corsa G2 road tire is lightweight and built for speed with 320 TPI and is available in gumwall and black. Clincher folding tire and non-tubeless. [11A00347]

www.biketiresdirect.com

aclinjury said:

well bigger volume (>28c) tires will roll with the same or even slightly better efficiency in a lab, under stead state. However, if you air up a 28c to a pressure that it'll outroll a 25c, then the 28c won't feel as comfortable as the guy airing it to a lower psi.

But real world riding is almost never steady state. Riders do not roll squarely on the bottom of a tire like on a drum. They're yaw'ing and rocking side to side as the pedal, elbow, leaning a bit here and there using body english. It's almost never like rolling on a drum. In a crit, or in a climb with lots of out of saddle efforts, you don't want squishy tires. Anyone who has sprinted with a 32c+ will tell you, it's complete shit. And no, we're not talking 21-23c tires with 120-150 psi anymore these days, who does. We're talking 25c at 75-85 psi versus 28c at 65-75 psi, and deciding which is best for a road course. Anyway, all the crit racers around here, from 140 lbs all the way to 200 lbs, many have all tried various combination of 25c, 28c, and even 32c tires, and so far I'm hearing mostly that 25-28c is the sweet spot. Starting from 32c it's just slow rolling and slower handling. The issue with tires bigger than 32c is that these tires tend to be thick, people who buy 32c tires buy them for gravel, and as such, they're thick. Manufacturers don't make 32c+ tire with thin casing, they just don't because nobody will buy a soft and thinly cased 32+c tire. I'm in the Los Angles area, lots of crit racers, some of the fastest sprinters in the nation, telling me their experience. We also have a lot of guys (strong guys) here who are mtb cat1 racers who fancy to use their gravel bikes, with 35-38c tires, to train with the local cat1-2 roadies on mock crits, guess what, mtb guys will get dropped when the peloton is upping their speed to 28-29 mph and/or hammering 800-1000+w out of every 2-3 corners, reaching 33-35 mph. Any effort that is hard and stochasitc, the gravel bike guys will go bye bye in a few efforts later.

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aclinjury said:

well bigger volume (>28c) tires will roll with the same or even slightly better efficiency in a lab, under stead state. However, if you air up a 28c to a pressure that it'll outroll a 25c, then the 28c won't feel as comfortable as the guy airing it to a lower psi.

But real world riding is almost never steady state. Riders do not roll squarely on the bottom of a tire like on a drum. They're yaw'ing and rocking side to side as the pedal, elbow, leaning a bit here and there using body english. It's almost never like rolling on a drum. In a crit, or in a climb with lots of out of saddle efforts, you don't want squishy tires. Anyone who has sprinted with a 32c+ will tell you, it's complete shit. And no, we're not talking 21-23c tires with 120-150 psi anymore these days, who does. We're talking 25c at 75-85 psi versus 28c at 65-75 psi, and deciding which is best for a road course. Anyway, all the crit racers around here, from 140 lbs all the way to 200 lbs, many have all tried various combination of 25c, 28c, and even 32c tires, and so far I'm hearing mostly that 25-28c is the sweet spot. Starting from 32c it's just slow rolling and slower handling. The issue with tires bigger than 32c is that these tires tend to be thick, people who buy 32c tires buy them for gravel, and as such, they're thick. Manufacturers don't make 32c+ tire with thin casing, they just don't because nobody will buy a soft and thinly cased 32+c tire. I'm in the Los Angles area, lots of crit racers, some of the fastest sprinters in the nation, telling me their experience. We also have a lot of guys (strong guys) here who are mtb cat1 racers who fancy to use their gravel bikes, with 35-38c tires, to train with the local cat1-2 roadies on mock crits, guess what, mtb guys will get dropped when the peloton is upping their speed to 28-29 mph and/or hammering 800-1000+w out of every 2-3 corners, reaching 33-35 mph. Any effort that is hard and stochasitc, the gravel bike guys will go bye bye in a few efforts later.

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Kerry Irons said:

Not what the data show in the real world (not on lab rollers). Suggest you get a subscription to Bicycle Quarterly and learn about the extensive research in this area. They have been leaders in providing the field data that has led to the transition from 19-21 mm tires to 28-30 mm tires in the pro peloton. Of course there is a weight penalty for ever-bigger tires and that shows up when you are constantly jumping speeds, though that extra energy is returned to the rider because heavier wheels/tires don't slow down as fast when you let off on the pedal pressure. Wider tires have different pneumatic trail and so there comes a point where the bike needs to be designed differently to get the best performance on wider tires. Rene Herse' has a wide selection of wider tires with very compliant casings and those tires are winning lots of gravel events. Anybody who rides a gravel bike in a crit should expect to lose. Horses for courses.

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aclinjury said:

looking at the specs of this bike here:

TCR Advanced Disc 2 PC (2021) | bike | Giant Bicycles US

Reengineered with updated aerodynamic tube shaping in the headtube, downtube and fork, plus added clearance for larger diameter tires (up to 32mm), the new TCR Advanced Disc delivers outstanding on-the-road efficiency. ...

www.giant-bicycles.com

..it came with 25c tires setup tubeless. So, you could just use 25mm tires front and back with Continental race butyl tubes (or any race butyl tubes). Or if you prefer a bit more comfy ride, or if you're heavier than 160 lbs, then go with 25mm tire up front and 28mm tire out back. If you're 175+ lbs, then go with 28mm tires front and back. Don't go bigger than 28mm tire as anything bigger than 28mm will feel slow and soft (not for fast racing on street tarmac). Also, get a SOFTER tire for the front, like those tires designated as "corsa" types (eg, Vittoria Corsa, Veloflex Corsa, etc). And get a harder tire for the rear, like Continental 5000, or even the heavier one Vittoria Rubino Graphene. You do not want to get a soft "corsa" type tire for the rear, no matter how big the size, because you'll end up wearing the corsa tires out fast on the rear. 28mm tires will last longer, wears slower, than 25mm tires.

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APS NZ said:

Thank you for the information. My hesitation is the bike has hook-less-sidewall rims & apparently it's recommended to still use tubeless-compatible tyres for bead profile. This seems to be a limitation with this particular model. I could just put in an inner tube but other reviews indicate the current stock tire is very difficult to take off/on & reseat especially on the road. Thanks for your help.

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tlg said:

Sure they can. Any tire can be used with a tube. Giant even says so.
You can only use hookless tires on hookless rims.

Giant Hookless Technology | Giant Bicycles US

www.giant-bicycles.com

If necessary, you may use an inner tube on a Giant hookless rim, so long as the tire you are using has passed the Giant test protocol. However, please note that Giant hookless rims are designed to perform best when set up as tubeless and used without an inner tube.

https://support.zipp.com/hc/en-us/articles/7868244824731-Can-you-run-a-tube-in-a-Zipp-hookless-rim-with-a-tubeless-tire-

Yes

Hookless vs Hooked: An Explainer

The question in the minds of many riders - what is the difference between hooked and hookless?

us.huntbikewheels.com

Yes, you can! But you must only do this in a tubeless-ready tire that is safe for use on hookless rims

I don't think anyone makes a tube specific hookles tires. The whole purpose of them is to run tubeless at lower pressures.
And remember... hookless tires usually have a maximum pressure of 72.5psi (5 bar)

Honestly, if you're intent on using tubes, I'd get rid of the wheels and get hooked rims.
You're not going to get great performance from a hookless tire with a tube in it.

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