[Samadhi]

Has anyone had any experience using Sportlegs and taking Coumadin?

My INR was WAY low today and the only thing that's changed is that I've taken Sportlegs twice recently. Last time was before yesterday's ride.

I can't find Coumadin interaction info for the product, or it's active ingredients.

I've got a call in to Sportlegs, but no rsvp yet.

any info would be appreciated.

 

[spade2you]

Shouldn't be anything in Sportlegs that would cause a decrease in INR. As long as the ingredient list is accurate, not much in Sportlegs to begin with.

 

[Kristatos]

According to the label on Sportlegs website it has vegetable oils, and according to the FDA guideline on coumadin, vegetable oils can have high levels of vitamin K which reduces the effect of coumadin and should be avoided. So there's a start - took all of one minute to look up using google.

 

[spade2you]

According to the label on Sportlegs website it has vegetable oils, and according to the FDA guideline on coumadin, vegetable oils can have high levels of vitamin K which reduces the effect of coumadin and should be avoided. So there's a start - took all of one minute to look up using google.

Shouldn't be enough vegetable oils to move the INR.

 

[Kristatos]

well it's easy enough to stop using the supplement for a while and see if things go back to normal. The fact that the product has undefined and unquantified ingredients like "vegetable oils" in it means every lot is going to be different, and you have no way of really knowing what's in there.

 

[multirider]

According to the label on Sportlegs website it has vegetable oils, and according to the FDA guideline on coumadin, vegetable oils can have high levels of vitamin K which reduces the effect of coumadin and should be avoided. So there's a start - took all of one minute to look up using google.

My wife is on blood thinners and it is very hard to keep a stable INR. If you've been tracking what you consume pretty carefully and Sport Legs is the only difference, seems like a straightforward decision regarding whether to use it -- is it more important to prevent blood clots that could damage muscle, heart, lungs, or cause a stroke? or is it more important to hope to achieve a very slight advantage in cycling that is highly unlikely to change how you finish in what are most likely amateur sporting events? I'm not trying to be snarky. Just trying to help you think it through. Blood clots are not something I would put myself at risk for, particularly in hopes of finishing a few places higher in a race that will be forgotten by most people in a few weeks or months.

 

[jspharmd]

I agree with Spade, they couldn't put enough vegetable oil into 10 Sportlegs to provide a quantity of vitamin K capable of a clinically significant decrease in the INR.

Of course we can't judge the clinical significance if you descriptions like WAY LOW. When was your last therapeutic INR? What was the INR at that time? Have you missed any warfarin doeses? What times have you been taking your warfarin?

Have you looked for hidden sources of Vitamin K (mayonaise, eating out where you don't know all the ingredients of the food, etc.)? Any new medications? Any new OTCs (besides Sportlegs)?

If you can truly rule out other causes, I suggest you do a trial of no Sportlegs - check INR, Sportlegs - check INR and see if you have the expected results of a decreased INR.

If you find it is the Sportlegs, can I write up your case for a report in the literature?

 

[spade2you]

I honestly don't really see any beneficial ingredients in most of these supplements. I highly doubt it would drop the INR like that. At the same time, save your $.

 

[jspharmd]

Spade! You're not supposed to say anything until he withdraws and re-challenges, this would be an unique case report (based on the interaction -if there is one- and the unique fashion in which it was discovered. Can't you see the report noting that the interaction was identified on roadbikereview.com?

 

[spade2you]

Spade! You're not supposed to say anything until he withdraws and re-challenges, this would be an unique case report (based on the interaction -if there is one- and the unique fashion in which it was discovered. Can't you see the report noting that the interaction was identified on roadbikereview.com?

Short on research topics lately?

Turf to resident or student!!!

 

[Samadhi]

I really appreciate the comments.

I have to agree that for Sportlegs to affect my INR so drastically in such a short time there would have to be tons of vitamin K or some other bad substance. There isn't.

I got a call back from Sportlegs, but that's turning into phone tag.

My wife reminded me that I've been taking an over-the-counter cholesterol reducer. These sorts of medicine are known to counteract Coumadin at times.

We consulted with my Dr last night and the plan is to cut out the Sportlegs and ColestOff until my INR gets back to where it's supposed to be. I may or may not return to Sportlegs after that, but not without keeping an eye on the INR at the same time. As someone correctly pointed out, it's not worth throwing another clot.

I'll post the result of my convo with Sportlegs after I hear what they have to say.

PS: I'm not racing.

 

[spade2you]

I'd probably guess that the 2nd OTC would be causing the issue. Really, it's best to avoid starting or stopping OTCs without consulting the doc running your Coumadin.

Best to avoid racing while on Coumadin. I'd probably be careful about group rides, too.

 

[Samadhi]

I'd probably guess that the 2nd OTC would be causing the issue. Really, it's best to avoid starting or stopping OTCs without consulting the doc running your Coumadin.

Best to avoid racing while on Coumadin. I'd probably be careful about group rides, too.

I'm thinking the OTC is prolly the culprit although being a bit more careful about the Sportlegs.

I try to be careful with my riding. Not racing is the best course but my reasoning has little/nothing to do with health issues. I try to stay clear of MUPs on weekend and high-traffic times.

But sometimes accidents or other problems. I dumped my bike a couple weeks ago, and got bruised up. The worst bruising I've gotten on a bike didn't involve an accident. Mashing my pedals caused a black & blue mark the size of a grapefruit over the distal (down by the knee) end of the quads on my left leg - no trauma other than pedaling.

I frikkin hate Coumadin, but you do what you gotta do.

 

[Samadhi]

Just got off the phone with Carl @ Sportlegs.

His opinion is that there's nothing in Sportlegs that would counter-act Coumadin.

He says the FDA views his ingredients as safe.

He's got a sales rep who's been on Rat Poison for 20 + years and has been using Sportlegs for 8 with no problem.

Good enough for me.

I'm still gonna be careful about taking it again.

 

[spade2you]

Interactions or not, I see little reason to take any of that stuff.

 

[Samadhi]

Interactions or not, I see little reason to take any of that stuff.

I thought the sportlegs helped. Might be all in my head though. We'll see. I'll be riding Sunday without sportlegs so we'll see.

And I'm curious - you seem to be speaking about this with some authority. Professional or experiential? Not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful- not in the least - just curious.

 

[spade2you]

I thought the sportlegs helped. Might be all in my head though. We'll see. I'll be riding Sunday without sportlegs so we'll see.

And I'm curious - you seem to be speaking about this with some authority. Professional or experiential? Not trying to be argumentative or disrespectful- not in the least - just curious.

JS and I are professionals. OTOH, if this were in doping, a certain "doctor" might try to discredit my credentials.

 

[Samadhi]

JS and I are professionals. OTOH, if this were in doping, a certain "doctor" might try to discredit my credentials.

Speak the devils name ........

:aureola:

 

[spade2you]

Speak the devils name ........

:aureola:

The devil only cares about one thing and would never dare to help someone.

 

[Samadhi]

What was the INR at that time?

It was 1.1 (tested twice - 1 at the clinic and 2 at an outside lab) on 3/28

Have you missed any warfarin doeses?

Nope

What times have you been taking your warfarin?

Evening for the last 6 months under Dr supervision.

Have you looked for hidden sources of Vitamin K (mayonaise, eating out where you don't know all the ingredients of the food, etc.)?

Nothing out of the ordinary, especially sources of vitamin K.

Any new medications? Any new OTCs (besides Sportlegs)?

Just an OTC for Cholesterol called Cholestoff or something like that. I never take asprin, ibuprofen, etc.

I've already posted that we're going to lay of the OTCs until the INR is back where it should be. I may try Sportlegs again after that, but not without an INR test within the week.

If you find it is the Sportlegs, can I write up your case for a report in the literature?

Sure! :thumbsup: