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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Since I mostly do cross races, I figured I'd cross post this, in case there is a difference of opinion/procedure.

Cross posted in Racing forum:

So, this is starting to irritate me. There does not seem to be a consistent approach used by referees when it comes to lapped or pulled riders. Some keep you in finishing order and give you a +1 for being 1 lap down to the leaders at the end, some give you a placing compared to everyone else, and some give you a DNF.

Now to me, DNF means I had a mechanical or other situation and I could not complete the race. I was "unable to finish". In my mind that doesn't mean "I was unable to finish on the same lap as the leaders". Am I totally off base?

Can anyone shed some light on this, preferrably an official or ref. I'd like to be educated enough to understand the approaches and argue my points if needed.
 

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5G. Finish
5G1. Any rider lapped before the last lap shall leave the race
the next time they cross the finish line (unless stated
differently prior to the race); and shall be given a place.
Lapped riders who are permitted to remain in the race will all
finish on the same lap as the leader and will be placed
according to the number of laps they are down and then their
position at the finish.
5G2. In championship events a rider who is lapped during the
final lap of the race shall be stopped at the beginning of the
finish line area and shall be classified in accordance with their
placing without crossing the finish line.
https://www.usacycling.org/forms/USAC_rulebook-5.pdf
 

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In the big picture...does it really matter?
Racing happens at the front.
I have gotten more +1's this year than ever...along with the worst placings in a long time.
I got called to scoring because someone thought he beat me for 42nd ( and we were lapped)...I said let him have it if it's that important to him. I'm sure the officials had better things to do

If you're not on the lead lap...and there's no money or (real) points involved...what's the point?
Use it to motivate yourself to improve and get on the lead lap.
 

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According to pretender (and USAC), you should get a place, and I agree. While there isn't any money on the line, that doesn't mean you didn't work hard and train a stupid amount of hours to earn your place.

Just because you didn't get on the podium doesn't mean you didn't pay the same money and make the same effort to be part of the event. I think everyone who starts should get a placing, as much as it's possible, unless you pull out of the race.

Plus, how can you judge improvement if you don't have a baseline placement after you race?

I do agree with the mayor in that it seems ridiculous for someone to contest 42nd vs. 41st place. Get over it, nothing is on the line at that point.
 

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Maybe just have a note at some point in the results saying:" Everyone below sucked today. Go home and train. Better luck next week">
I know I'd be in that group.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for the official and opinion based input. So really, according the USAC, I deserve a place if I finished the race.

I would never contest my back of the pack finish, nor would I ever really get into it with someone who wanted to question the results.

It is more for me and for my sense of pride and accomplishment or lack thereof. And, DNFs get scored differently on crossresults.com. So it isn't a question of whether or not I was competitive or if I suck. I know I wasn't competitive and I know I suck. I'd just like to be able to say I suck less than that guy! and have it be official.

OK, I joke, but still. If the rules are the rules, shouldn't it be consistently enforced and applied? Inconsistency is a big pet peeve of mine.
 

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First off, I am slow. I am usually the anchor getting dropped at the back of the pack. I am usually that guy putting in every effort to fight (safely, of course) for 41st/42nd place that was just mentioned. Also, I have not truly raced in sanctioned events in years. Then mostly mtb. Now mostly endurance events.

But...
** getting DNF's would bug me, I have trained and raced as hard as I could. I may not be the fastest, but my effort to race hard should not be questioned. May not place high but I agree with the opinion -give me a placing. I would prefer see my name next to 42nd out of 60 riders. Than DNF.
**A DNF is something you should get when you do not complete race due to mechnical, crash or you decided to quit.
**Although I would fight every place during a race I would not complain to race referees for the 41st spot after a race, it is not that big of a deal once you cross the line .

Just one old farts opinion.
 

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I always thought you had to make it a certain number of laps (e.g., half the race) in order to place. If you get pulled before that, it's a DNF.
 

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I feel you should get a place, even if you get pulled thats what you pay for. If you want to take a ride then why pay.

If they dont want to place you if you get pulled then race it bandit next time. It would be the same thing.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
iktome said:
I always thought you had to make it a certain number of laps (e.g., half the race) in order to place. If you get pulled before that, it's a DNF.
Not in my experience at all. This past race, got a DNF, but wasn't lapped until the last lap. The previous race, received a placing and was pulled from the race with at least one lap to go and I never got lapped. They used the new 80% rule.
 

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krisdrum said:
... according the USAC, I deserve a place if I finished the race.....
Morally, sure. (edited... oops it does say that for cx)

In practice, it's up to the officials. If it's not stated on the flyer, and they don't mention it during the start-line briefing, you should raise your hand and ask.
 

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I think you should definitely get a place. When we did this race last year i think the leader lapped me 2 times, and i still got a placing.

Don't know why the used DNF for everyone that got lapped this year.

DNF would certainly bug me also, you finished the race, just a lap down, you did not quit nor did you break your bike.
 

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I want to get placed simply because in my club you get various points per race based on where you came in...still trying to hit get into the top %50 to hit our next point level, but that won't happen until I can stay on the lead lap :)

I might have made it this past weekend if I hadn't had to stop to adjust my rear brake on the 3rd lap.
 

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I want to get placed simply because in my club you get various points per race based on where you came in...still trying to hit get into the top %50 to hit our next point level, but that won't happen until I can stay on the lead lap :)

I might have made it this past weekend if I hadn't had to stop to adjust my rear brake on the 3rd lap.
 

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you shouldn't get a dnf, but if you are in the back of a large field, don't expect to always get a placing. i've seen multiple races where they only placed the top 30 or so racers of a much larger field. however, i would expect a dnp or something along those lines.

pulling riders seems to be at the discretion of the officials.
 

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In the small races I promote we never pull riders and riders often get lapped once or twice. The scoring system takes this into account, we just sort by class, then total laps, then place on last lap. It's pretty simple and even at a big race I suspect they leave lapped riders in the race, so the scoring system needs to work with those constraints.

DNF is leaving the race before you get kicked out. If you get pulled you should get a result, generally you have to get a certain number of laps before you get counted.
 

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krisdrum said:
Not in my experience at all. This past race, got a DNF, but wasn't lapped until the last lap. The previous race, received a placing and was pulled from the race with at least one lap to go and I never got lapped. They used the new 80% rule.
I might be thinking crits. And I might be thinking crits in stage races.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Interesting. Thanks everyone. The difference in opinion is quite startling between the thread in this forum and the one I also started in the racing forum. I'll have the check the USAC rule book, but perhaps there is different wording for crits/road races than the section provided by Pretender above that is cross specific.
 
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