NY Times article concerning corroboration of Landis' account of doping on US Postal - http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/05/sports/cycling/05armstrong.html?_r=1.
More like the family structure has fallen apart. Teachers are more highly trained today than ever, yet test scores drop. I highly doubt the schools are to blame. Somehow MAGICALLY, public schools in wealthy neighborhoods still produce very high test scores. I went to a wealthy public high school. The teachers were mediocre at best, yet our test scores were through the roof. Answer: More parent "support".SicBith said:The article should really read.....
Tax payers shocked at the cost federal prosecutors are willing to pay to confirm a American cyclist used PEDs to beat European cyclists in a European sporting event.
One anonymous source states "we have nothing better to do with our hard earned and payed taxes then chase a sporting cheat who at least felt guilty enough to start a cancer foundation"
another source states "WTF are we doing. Our countrymen are dying in other lands, our schools system is falling apart, our coast lands are sludgy, we need to do research on hydrogen cars, the line to get tax payer funds is long and Jeff "DBag" Nysleshitz should be at the back of the line!"
This quote from LA's attorney, Bryan D. Daly, is hilarious in its utter ignorance. Umm, how many times did Jan Ullrich come in 2nd to LA? Did he not have his career ended prematurely due to the investigation of his involvement in Operation Puerto? Looks like "they" go after the 2nd placed dopers too. So I think Mr. Daly's contention is daft and ill-informed in the least. Its always the same defense with LA - "they" (the French, the media, former teammates, Lemond, you name it) are "out to get him". Ridiculous....rydbyk said:“If Lance Armstrong came in second in those Tour de France races, there’s no way that Lance Armstrong would be involved in these cases,” Daly said. “I think that the concern is that they are caught up in the pursuit of a celebrity to catch him in a lie.”
otiebob said:This quote from LA's attorney, Bryan D. Daly, is hilarious in its utter ignorance. Umm, how many times did Jan Ullrich come in 2nd to LA? Did he not have his career ended prematurely due to the investigation of his involvement in Operation Puerto? Looks like "they" go after the 2nd placed dopers too. So I think Mr. Daly's contention is daft and ill-informed in the least. Its always the same defense with LA - "they" (the French, the media, former teammates, Lemond, you name it) are "out to get him". Ridiculous....
mmoose said:The fun of this is in the speculation on who is "unnamed". Kev Livingston? Marty Jemison? (he seemed to part ways pretty bitterly and I woulndn't be too surprised.) I'm leaning away from Vaughters.
I don't imagine any of the Euro riders really co-operating with this, only the US riders.
I don't think Lance ever claimed that he was riding "clean".3rensho said:W.... and the repeated claims of being clean ...
3rensho said:Was DZ on the Postal team at this time? He's the one I was thinking would sing. Vaughters too.
I don't remember the 'this is a witch hunt' comments from when Ullrich was being accused.
I've wanted to see Lance fall for years. The arrogance of continuing to deny and the repeated claims of being clean while Tyler and Floyd twisted in the wind were ridiculous. If Lance gives Floyd a job 2 years ago, this never happens. All of these guys who got popped are screwed. What would it have cost a multi-millionaire to give a gig to Tyler on the LAF or a domestic-only role on RS to Floyd? Probably NOT his reputation. That seems to be what this may cost Lance in the future. Small price to pay IMO.
No way. It's a no-name cyclist and this is a carefully orchestrated (and very transparent) leak.twiggy said:Dave Z?
It is not transparent.jorgy said:No way. It's a no-name cyclist and this is a carefully orchestrated (and very transparent) leak.
From the NY Times story:
A former teammate of Armstrong said in a telephone interview Wednesday that he had spoken with investigators. He said he detailed some of his own drug use, as well as the widespread cheating that he said went on as part of the Postal Service team — all of which he said was done with Armstrong’s knowledge and encouragement.
The rider, who has never tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs or methods, asked that his name not be used because investigators advised him not to speak publicly about the information he provided. He has not been called before the grand jury that has been convened in Los Angeles to investigate the case.
Not on the list of cyclists named to be called before the grand jury but the NY Times just happened to track him down? Hahahahahaha.
My guess is Michael Barry. He has written articles for the NY Times so he would have contacts there that would probably honor his request to remain anonymos.mmoose said:The fun of this is in the speculation on who is "unnamed". Kev Livingston? Marty Jemison? (he seemed to part ways pretty bitterly and I woulndn't be too surprised.) I'm leaning away from Vaughters.
I don't imagine any of the Euro riders really co-operating with this, only the US riders.
I can argue your point that 'they all dope' but I doubt it would do any good. And yes, I'd like to see all of the dopers in the pro cycling fall. It makes me sad that doping has become so prevalent in all sports. I've followed and participated in bike racing for the majority of my life and it saddens me to see people who don't play by the rules get ahead. Is that the whole pro peloton? I don't think it is.rydbyk said:They ALL dope. They ALL do everything possible not to get caught. They ALL deny doping. Of course they are going to deny it. Do you think that Lance is going to just suddenly randomly admit to doping when he KNOWS that nearly every top contender is doped too and not being bothered yet. Doping is simply part of the sport. It is what you sign up for when you aspire to ride/be competitive in the TdF and other classics etc. By saying that you have wanted to see "Lance fall for years" would sort of imply that you would like to see all top contenders and possibly those at the back of the peloton fall also.
Lance has done a ton to bring the ambiguous sport of cycling more towards the mainstream here in the USA. This arrogant behavior is most likely what lead to him being such a bad ass even at the age of 15. You have TWO choices when you are REPEATEDLY questioned about using PEDs.... 1. Passively deny it. 2. Arrogantly deny it. Which one is more convincing? I would say that arrogantly denying it makes more people believe Lance and ANYONE hoping to convince the public that they are "clean".
Lets face it. He is a doper and so is nearly everyone else at this level. I hate to keep repeating myself, but at the risk of sounding like a broken record, who is to say that the riders at the back of the peloton are not doped to the gills also and would not be able to complete the TdF without PEDs? Just finishing the TdF is truly amazing....don't forget that.
I am starting to think that IF Lance had not been so fanatical about his training and genetically gifted with the heart of a lion (all of which are legal last time I checked) that he would not be in this situation today. He would not have won so many times and therefore nobody would care enough to "see him fall". Just using PEDs does NOT lead to a TdF victory. It is FAR from being that simple.
It has got to piss Lance off know that just because other dopers have not worked as hard as him etc etc etc that nobody cares to see THEM fall. Again, he KNOWS that all top contenders are dopers too.
3rensho said:I can argue your point that 'they all dope' but I doubt it would do any good. And yes, I'd like to see all of the dopers in the pro cycling fall. It makes me sad that doping has become so prevalent in all sports. I've followed and participated in bike racing for the majority of my life and it saddens me to see people who don't play by the rules get ahead. Is that the whole pro peloton? I don't think it is.
It seems that many of the people who are larger fans of Lance than our sport have now reverted to a stance that "well, they ALL doped and so Lance won fair and square". That's BS. It shows that those people are more interested in justifying their hero's actions than having a clean and fair sport for future generations of racers. This justification in the form of "well, Lance is just SUCH a competitor, of course he'd do what it took to stay on point with the rest of the best racers" is also crap. No one should get a pass.
It's pretty clear that you are a huge fan. (Heart of a lion? really?) I respect that you probably started loving the sport because of watching LA at the Tour. Cool, we need more people like you. But, please don't tell me that Lance gets a special dispensation from blame because of his 'heart' or that 'everybody does it'. Lastly, the pro season goes from approx. Feb through Oct. each year. Finishing ANY of those races is a pretty big feat......don't forget that.
Good point about Michael Barry. Didn't even think of his participation with Postal or his writing background. That makes a lot of sense.Mootsie said:My guess is Michael Barry. He has written articles for the NY Times so he would have contacts there that would probably honor his request to remain anonymos.
Oooh, a cred-off! I'll stand by my statement. If you have followed the last 26 Tours and DIDN'T think anything was strange about LA's domination other than his obviously superior heart and genes and work ethic, I guess we'll have to go down separate roads.rydbyk said:LOL...seriously. That is a pretty big leap wouldn't you say? I have not missed a TdF in 26 years amigo. Watched it live in France too... And yes..I would say that anyone who went thru the cancer treatments/surgeries that he went thru with little complaints has the heart of a lion. I am guessing that you are an expert in this too perhaps??
He did at least once, of which I'm aware. It was during a television interview; I cannot recall the show or who was asking the question, but I am virtually certain it was one of the Big Three networks. He was asked point-blank if he had ever used performance-enhancing drugs at any time during his cycling career (paraphrasing). He answered that he had never used performance-enhancing drugs (again, paraphrasing).MG537 said:I don't think Lance ever claimed that he was riding "clean".