[jjp]

How can you find out what year a C40 is? I recently put down a deposit on a NOS C40 B Stay, and it just occured to me (from reading a great article at Velo News) that there have been a number of developments in the frame, particularly in the BB shell, where it went from alluminum to titanium. So, I have an additional question, is there a reason to not buy the C40 B-Stay if it has an aluminum BB shell? Thanks.

 

[tmluk]

Yes. It is true that the earlier versions of C40 had corrosion issues with the BB shell and the drop-outs. I can look for it when I return home tonight. I think the switch was around/after 1996 ... but I will check to make sure.

 

[jjp]

Thanks. Do you think you can tell from the serial number?

 

[Vientomas]

Here is the little I know:

Earliest C40's had a down tube that was the same diameter at the head tube junction as the bottom bracket junction and had steel forks.

Next generation had a down tube that was a larger diameter at the bottom bracket than at the head tube. I think these frames started to use carbon forks.

Next came the B-Stay.

Lastly was the B-Stay HP.

If you bought a B-Stay version, it it probably a newer (relatively speaking) version which should have the Ti insert in the bottom bracket.

I have the second generation (larger diameter down tube at BB) and it has a Ti shell in the BB.

 

[jjp]

Thanks, I just got off the phone with the sales manager at Colnago America. It is likely a 2002 or 2003 frame. The titanium BB was added the same year they added the HP stays and increased the stearing column diamter to 1 1/8", which was 2003 or 2004. But that might contradict the info that you have about your frame?? Yes, I did buy the B-Stay, non HP version, but I was told (and it looks to me) that the BB shell is aluminum.

He doubted that it would present any problems, and said that the aluminum BB was mostly a problem for riders who got their bikes wet a lot, and then didn't take the time to clean them properly. He also added that if I broke the fork, unless I could find find a used one or NOS, I would have to have it replaced with the current Colnago Street fork which uses an aluminum strearing column (the same one that I have on my Master). However, I think that if I was to break the fork, I would need more than just a new fork.

When I mentioned the name of the store that the bike was at, he knew immediately who the owner was, and said that the guy goes to Italy all the time to buy up NOS frames. That is likely how they ended up with so many C40s in the past year.

If you want to see what line up looks like from 2002, they have a bunch at: http://members.cox.net/italianbikesusa/c40.html

Mine is the last one, LX23.

 

[tmluk]

Ti BB was introduced in 2000.
B-stay was introduced in 2001.
So if the C40 you're buying has the B-stays, then it has the Ti BB shell.

 

[jjp]

I believe the frame to be from 2002, it is a B-Stay (non HP), and the manager (and also from what I could tell) said that it is aluminum. According to the sales manager at Colnogo, the ti BB was introduced with the HP, after the B Stay. I'm amazed there isn't a detailed history on the web. with all of information out there you'd there would at least be a chronolgy of sorts.

 

[tmluk]

This is odd because I have Lennard Zinn's Tour Tech Review 10 July 2002 stating that the making of the BB joint of the C40 is Ti. As I said, I have seen the slotted Ti BB insert in early C40's.

Zinn: "The development of the C40 is ongoing. The carbon is now lighter and stiffer, and the stays and bottom bracket have changed since the first of its Paris-Roubaix victories. Early models had aluminum bottom bracket sleeves like most carbon frames. Now, Colnago's titanium sleeve is knurled on the outside and has four teeth locking into notches in the carbon shell (see photo). It is far more expensive, but it is much better; titanium cannot corrode, and it has stronger threads and bonding. "

 

[jjp]

This is odd because I have Lennard Zinn's Tour Tech Review 10 July 2002 stating that the making of the BB joint of the C40 is Ti. As I said, I have seen the slotted Ti BB insert in early C40's.

Zinn: "The development of the C40 is ongoing. The carbon is now lighter and stiffer, and the stays and bottom bracket have changed since the first of its Paris-Roubaix victories. Early models had aluminum bottom bracket sleeves like most carbon frames. Now, Colnago's titanium sleeve is knurled on the outside and has four teeth locking into notches in the carbon shell (see photo). It is far more expensive, but it is much better; titanium cannot corrode, and it has stronger threads and bonding. "

I have that article too. I found it on the net yesterday. It seems REALLY hard to get a straight answer. I mean if you call Colnago, you'd think you get the straight goods. He (the sales manager) was not 100%. More like 90% certain. The BB on the frame that I put a deposit on is not knurled on the outside, and there are no locking teeth either. It is however, a B-Stay. You can see it here, all though the pic is not that great. http://www.racersportif.com/classics.htm Alternatively, there is a better pic here, and this one too looks exactly like the one that is in the store. You can tell form the pic that the BB is not ti, and even though it is small, you can tell that there are no locking teeth:
http://members.cox.net/italianbikesusa/c40.html

I`m going to go back to the store tomorrow and ask if they have any other C40's to look at, and see if all of the BBs look the same.

 

[JLane]

dealer name?

JJP, would you be willing to reveal who the dealer of the NOS framesets is? I would be curious to keep an eye on the their inventory. Thank you.

 

[jjp]

JJP, would you be willing to reveal who the dealer of the NOS framesets is? I would be curious to keep an eye on the their inventory. Thank you.

Hi, yes sure. The store is Racer Sportif in Toronto. web site www.racersportif.com. Go to the "Classics" section after you press "enter", and scroll down. It is not an accurate page. He still has the Mapei listed and it is sold. I've put a deposit on the LX23,

If you want info, you'd have to call him, as there is little posted on the site. I'd be curious to hear what you can find out. Ask for Chris or Denis if you call. I'm going back there tomorrow with my tape measure to compare the tube lengths to my Master (they should be the same), have another look at the BB shell, take down the serial number so that I can contact Colnogo to see when it was made. It seems from everything that I have read that there is conflicting information as to wether or not it should have a ti or an aluminum BB shell, and that is the most frustrating piece of info in all of this. From what have come across the ti BB shell was introduced on the C40 HP, not the C40 B-Stay. However, some of the riders that have responded to my thread said that they have a C40 B-Stay (non HP) with a ti BB. I just want to make sure that the frame is legit, and it is not a first generation C40 with "B Stay" stenciled onto the seat/chain stays - because if it is first generation, I don't want it. It looks identicle to the one in the image on their page, and to the one on this page:

http://members.cox.net/italianbikesusa/c40.html

Regards, Jared.

 

[tmluk]

The locking teeth is on the right side only of the frame. Can send pic if you like but if you can check the frames first hand that is even better.

The reason I am pretty certain that Colnago was aware of the BB corrosion problems around 1997 because I have the 1996 and 1997 catalogues. The C40's already have the locking teeth pattern on the right side of the BB. These might not be Ti but Al but C40 already have the locking teeth BB by then.

 

[jjp]

The locking teeth is on the right side only of the frame. Can send pic if you like but if you can check the frames first hand that is even better.

The reason I am pretty certain that Colnago was aware of the BB corrosion problems around 1997 because I have the 1996 and 1997 catalogues. The C40's already have the locking teeth pattern on the right side of the BB. These might not be Ti but Al but C40 already have the locking teeth BB by then.

So, if you're saying that C40's had locking teeth by 1997, then the frame that racer Sportif is selling is pre 1997? However, that does not add up with what I have been reading in different places here - that the ti BB (with locking teeth) was not introduced until the early 2000's.

I am going for a ride today, and on the route I'm going to stop in at the bike shop, and get a good look at the frame. I do not recall seeing any locking teeth, but then I may not have been looking for that. I will get the serial number and call Colnago America to see how I can find out what year the frame was made.
Thanks.

 

[Ride-Fly]

JJP,
One thing you stated a few times (on this thread and your other regarding C40s) is reference to C40s going to 1 1/8" steerer tubes. I thought C40s ALWAYS had 1" steerers. From everything I read, the switch to 1 1/8" coincides with the introduction of the C50. I know Colnago made both the C40 and C50 in 2004 so maybe that is where the confusion is?

This whole Ti BB shell has me really intrigued. If this shop has C40 B-stays with Alum shells (and it turns out that B-stay frames should all have Ti), something doesn't add up. Could the owner have been duped and bought a bunch a fake C40s during his trips to Italy??? The whole other thread on the fake Colnagos got me thinking that there are probably cheats out there that are making fake C40s, C50s, as well. Scary thought.

 

[jjp]

I think I may have stumbled into some poor sentence structure! I meant to say that the 1 1/8" steering column was after the C40. On another note however, I went by the store, and I could not find the serial number on it, but the BB shell was definately aluminum. They had a few more so I looked the over, and there was one more in the right size, but different colour scheme, and it defiantely has a ti BB shell! So, I'm getting that one instead. Also, I noticed on the one with the ti BB shell that the seat post lug was a bit beefier and cut slightly different. I took some pics of the frame, and I'll post them a little later on. I'm glad I did some research, it paid off, big time. The colour shceme is the LX11, basically red and white. Nice.

 

[jjp]

This is the one that I decided to go with, after learning that the Robobank coloured scheme frame that I was initially pining after had no serial number and had the aluminum BB shell. It's a bit more $$$, but also a bit more peace of mind. Frame is NOS and $3100.

 

[tmluk]

That is one beautiful classic frame. I am glad that you finally got what you were looking for. Your adventure had helped me learnt a thing or two. C40 B-stay is availabe in both Al BB and Ti BB shell ... and some without serial numbers. Very interesting, frustrating and intriguing. This one also have replacable rear hanger as well.

Does this one have a serial number? Btw, I have checked my 1997 C40 pre-B-stay catalogue again, the BB does have teeth/notches ... some are more fortunate and some are less fortunate ... Like the guys at Racer Sportif said to me, "It's Italian. There is always tomorrow."

 

[jjp]

That is one beautiful classic frame. I am glad that you finally got what you were looking for. Your adventure had helped me learnt a thing or two. C40 B-stay is availabe in both Al BB and Ti BB shell ... and some without serial numbers. Very interesting, frustrating and intriguing. This one also have replacable rear hanger as well.

Does this one have a serial number? Btw, I have checked my 1997 C40 pre-B-stay catalogue again, the BB does have teeth/notches ... some are more fortunate and some are less fortunate ... Like the guys at Racer Sportif said to me, "It's Italian. Ther is always tomorrow."

 

[fabsroman]

I believe the frame to be from 2002, it is a B-Stay (non HP), and the manager (and also from what I could tell) said that it is aluminum. According to the sales manager at Colnogo, the ti BB was introduced with the HP, after the B Stay. I'm amazed there isn't a detailed history on the web. with all of information out there you'd there would at least be a chronolgy of sorts.

Yeah, well if the manager also told you that the C40 ever had a 1 1/8" headtube, then he definitely does not know what he is talking about. When the 1 1/8" headtube was added to the frame, it became the C50.

 

[Ride-Fly]

I think I may have stumbled into some poor sentence structure! I meant to say that the 1 1/8" steering column was after the C40. On another note however, I went by the store, and I could not find the serial number on it, but the BB shell was definately aluminum. They had a few more so I looked the over, and there was one more in the right size, but different colour scheme, and it defiantely has a ti BB shell! So, I'm getting that one instead. Also, I noticed on the one with the ti BB shell that the seat post lug was a bit beefier and cut slightly different. I took some pics of the frame, and I'll post them a little later on. I'm glad I did some research, it paid off, big time. The colour shceme is the LX11, basically red and white. Nice.

Thanks JJP! As tmluk said, I definitely learned more about C40s!!! Now one question- how does one tell that it is a Ti or Alum shell? Is it just the color? I know it really doesn't matter too much but I definitely want a Ti BB shell. Probably only for the fact that my Extreme C has a Ti shell so my future C40 must have one too!