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Yes but David Walsh thinks everyone is a cheat and makes his living by calling tour winners cheats and then selling books with the "expose details."
 

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Call me a Fred
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They should then use radar guns to measure the riders speeds. Anyone who goes faster than Walsh likes will then immediately be banned for doping.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)

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Hairnet said:
To be fair to Walsh on that point, the only Tour winners not implicated in a doping scandal have been LeMond and Van Impe.
But using Walsh's logic, doesn't the fact that LeMond holds the record for the fastest tour time trial, faster than all those riders Walsh believes are or were doping, prove that LeMond must have been doping too?
 

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MikeBiker said:
They should then use radar guns to measure the riders speeds. Anyone who goes faster than Walsh likes will then immediately be banned for doping.
BLAM!
 

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It's a lot easier to just close your eyes and be a fanboy than spend the time to read the evidence.

Despite all of this, maybe the good Armstrong has done as a result of his victories has been worth it.

Sure's he's become rich, but he's also provided inspiration to millions. That's worth something.
 

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setting the record straight on Lemond's time

I guess most people didn't actually watch Lemond's 1989 time trial because when they mention it as indication that he was cheating they dont seem to realize 1) it was only 24.5 kilometers long, 2) there was an elevation decline between start to finish.

It was long enough to be included as a regular time trial, but really at 24 km it was somewhat between a prologue (which don't count in terms of the record) and the longer 50+ km time trials. There is no way Lemond could have kept that average up if it was a 50km TT. Plus, the guy basically just went out and rode as hard as he could asking not to be told times.
 

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stevesbike said:
I guess most people didn't actually watch Lemond's 1989 time trial because when they mention it as indication that he was cheating they dont seem to realize 1) it was only 24.5 kilometers long, 2) there was an elevation decline between start to finish.
My point exactly. It's impossible to argue that rider A is doping based on comparison to rider B's performance though Walsh continues to do so (selectively). From http://www.macleans.ca/canada/features/article.jsp?content=20070727_150415_8508
Just change Contador and Rasmussen to LeMond and Gourette-Col d'Aubisque to time trial

DW (Walsh) ... Alberto Contador, is definitely cheating.

M: How can you tell he’s cheating?

DW: Michael Rasmussen went up the Gourette-Col d'Aubisque faster than Lance Armstrong ever went up it. Alberto Contador was alongside him the whole way.
 

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FondriestFan said:
It's a lot easier to just close your eyes and be a fanboy than spend the time to read the evidence.

Despite all of this, maybe the good Armstrong has done as a result of his victories has been worth it.

Sure's he's become rich, but he's also provided inspiration to millions. That's worth something.



I believe that there is alot of inherent truths in what you say. It is far easier to know the "image" of Armstrong as a cancer survivor and endless supporter against the fight for cancer cures than it is to know the dark side of Armstrong. One of a intimidating, litigous bully who, I believe, did take drugs (EPO, Actovegin, corticosteroids, HGH, you name it) in his tour wins. Many of his teammates have been busted and it can be argued that his teammates in the mountains played big roles in helping him win those 7 tainted tours.
 

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well, there is the small fact that Contador comes from Manolo Saiz's Liberty Seguros-Würth team. Just to refresh things, Saiz managed Zulle, Olano, Igor González, Beloki, Heras, Vino, and a certain Johan Bruyneel. In terms of pedigree, that's about as dirty as they come. He is named in the OP documents (but appears to have struck a deal with Spanish cycling authorities, who have yet to act against a single Spanish rider). But, if you believe that a 24 year old Spaniard can climb like Delgado and time trial like Indurain then cheers to you.
 

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I am not saying I believe Contador is clean - given recent developments, to assume anyone is clean in the pro peloton would be foolish. This does not mean we should assume their guilt, either. I am not privy to any information other than what I read on the interwebs. But in the absence of anything more than A beat B or A begat B and B begat C, which proves that Z is a cheater, I am going to stick to my original advice to David Walsh and his ilk. Piss up a rope.
 

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Walsh is enormously credible - and a highly respected, award winning sporting journalist whose been writing on the Tour for many years - his book 'Inside the Tour de France' is one of the best written about the race.

The only people who question Walsh's credibility are those who have either no idea of his career or who slavishly follow the Disco PR line.
 

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Agreed --

but how do you reconcile the fact that anyone not following the Disco PR line is, by definition, not credible?

Fanboyz almost always grow up ... we'll see in a few years how the Armstrong legacy weathers time and scrutiny.
 
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barbedwire said:
It is far easier to know the "image" of Armstrong as a cancer survivor and endless supporter against the fight for cancer cures than it is to know the dark side of Armstrong. One of a intimidating, litigous bully who, I believe, did take drugs (EPO, Actovegin, corticosteroids, HGH, you name it) in his tour wins.
There is NO way LA took HGH in his post cancer years. As far as the rest, I wouldn't be suprised at all.
 
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