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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Thinking of getting a custom titanium bike but not sure if I should go for Davidson (local, Seattle) or Moots. I have read a lot about Moots in this forum but not much about Davidson. How would you describe your Davidson titanium? i.e. buying experience, quality of build and material (including welds), ride characteristics, and builder's reputation.
Thanks for your help.
 

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eminence grease
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siklista said:
Thinking of getting a custom titanium bike but not sure if I should go for Davidson (local, Seattle) or Moots. I have read a lot about Moots in this forum but not much about Davidson. How would you describe your Davidson titanium? i.e. buying experience, quality of build and material (including welds), ride characteristics, and builder's reputation.
Thanks for your help.
How odd, I just happen to have one of each.

Not huge differences between them, for whatever reason, the Moots feels racier and I prefer the Davidson over long hauls. Might have to do mostly with the wheels, the Moots having some low spoke count lightweights and the Davidson having heavier, more traditional 32H hoops.

In terms of quality - no major differences. In terms of rarity, I don't see a lot of either on the road. I've only seen a couple of Mootses and never a Davidson

I love 'em both, and I promise you won't be disappointed in either case.

The Moots was non-custom, so it was easy to get. Elliot Bay did a reasonable job meeting their build commit on the other. A little less urgency than I'm used to, but they only missed the commit by a week or so. I didn't have to hound them. In general, a positive customer experience.

Here's how they look tacked up:
 

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A Canadian in Sweden
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Hi Terry,
Always enjoy looking at some of your collection. Just wondering...how do you like the Neutrons? Are they worth the extra money?
Cheers, Wayne
PS. To the OP, I have a Vamoots and love it. I also have a non-custom Moots and just love the feel of it, especially on the climbs. As for Davidson, you won't find any in this part of the world.
 

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eminence grease
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wayneanneli said:
Hi Terry,
Always enjoy looking at some of your collection. Just wondering...how do you like the Neutrons? Are they worth the extra money?
Cheers, Wayne
PS. To the OP, I have a Vamoots and love it. I also have a non-custom Moots and just love the feel of it, especially on the climbs. As for Davidson, you won't find any in the part of the world.

I love Neutrons, so much so that I have three pairs! The ride well and seem to last forever.

But now they're so darn expensive that I can't bring myself to buy them. There are too many other less expensive bombproof options. Perhaps you can find a better deal over there on the Ice Cap.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Wow, nice to have both!

terry b said:
How odd, I just happen to have one of each.

Not huge differences between them, for whatever reason, the Moots feels racier and I prefer the Davidson over long hauls. Might have to do mostly with the wheels, the Moots having some low spoke count lightweights and the Davidson having heavier, more traditional 32H hoops.

In terms of quality - no major differences. In terms of rarity, I don't see a lot of either on the road. I've only seen a couple of Mootses and never a Davidson

I love 'em both, and I promise you won't be disappointed in either case.

The Moots was non-custom, so it was easy to get. Elliot Bay did a reasonable job meeting their build commit on the other. A little less urgency than I'm used to, but they only missed the commit by a week or so. I didn't have to hound them. In general, a positive customer experience.

Here's how they look tacked up:
Both bikes look cool:thumbsup: From the picture, I probably prefer the finish on Davidson-- must be a satin finish. Is satin finish better than Moots' blasted bead? Which finish is easier to maintain or do not get scratches easily?
As far as feel goes, do both have the same exact geometry? If they are, and both have the same wheel, would you attribute the difference in ride to the difference in material? Just wondering if both are 3.2Al. Thanks for posting a picture. They both look nice!
 

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eminence grease
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siklista said:
Both bikes look cool:thumbsup: From the picture, I probably prefer the finish on Davidson-- must be a satin finish. Is satin finish better than Moots' blasted bead? Which finish is easier to maintain or do not get scratches easily?
As far as feel goes, do both have the same exact geometry? If they are, and both have the same wheel, would you attribute the difference in ride to the difference in material? Just wondering if both are 3.2Al. Thanks for posting a picture. They both look nice!
The finish on the Davidson is white paint with a platinum pearl finish. The Moots is raw satin Ti. I had a Ti frame with a bead blasted finish and it was pretty much indestructable. But in either case, Ti doesn't really get scratched per se. More like surface abrasions.

Unfinished Ti takes a lot of abuse, no marks on that one. Paint, well paint is paint and it chips. It also adds weight, which doesn't matter much to me. In the case of the Davidson, I was trying to build as white a bike as I could, and you can see the result. It's still pretty much pristine. Have not tried them with the same wheels, the Moots no longer has the Neutrons on it, it has a pair of customs which did mellow the ride a bit. Perhaps someday when I'm really bored, I'll swap them and see how they feel.

Geometry is pretty similar, the Moots is a hair bigger. Both are 3.2, with the Davidson using butted tubes. I think the Moots uses straight gauge. I can't really tell a difference.

Living in Seattle, you should go spend some time talking to Bob at Elliot Bay. He's a nice guy, very willing to help.
 

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terry b said:
Living in Seattle, you should go spend some time talking to Bob at Elliot Bay.
+1 I'm a believer in giving the local builder a chance. If you strike up a bit of a rapport and make sure he understands exactly what you want in a bike your chances of a match are high. I've had 2 very positive experiences.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Me, too

SantaCruz said:
+1 I'm a believer in giving the local builder a chance. If you strike up a bit of a rapport and make sure he understands exactly what you want in a bike your chances of a match are high. I've had 2 very positive experiences.
I just moved in the area and have no inkling as to local builder's reputation. But from asking around and from what TerryB is saying, Davidson is an excellent choice, on par with Moots.
I also have no experience with titanium and from what I have been reading in this forum, asking around, a custom titanium will be my next bike.

Thanks for the response.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
terry b said:
The finish on the Davidson is white paint with a platinum pearl finish. The Moots is raw satin Ti. I had a Ti frame with a bead blasted finish and it was pretty much indestructable. But in either case, Ti doesn't really get scratched per se. More like surface abrasions.

Unfinished Ti takes a lot of abuse, no marks on that one. Paint, well paint is paint and it chips. It also adds weight, which doesn't matter much to me. In the case of the Davidson, I was trying to build as white a bike as I could, and you can see the result. It's still pretty much pristine. Have not tried them with the same wheels, the Moots no longer has the Neutrons on it, it has a pair of customs which did mellow the ride a bit. Perhaps someday when I'm really bored, I'll swap them and see how they feel.

Geometry is pretty similar, the Moots is a hair bigger. Both are 3.2, with the Davidson using butted tubes. I think the Moots uses straight gauge. I can't really tell a difference.

Living in Seattle, you should go spend some time talking to Bob at Elliot Bay. He's a nice guy, very willing to help.
Thanks Terry for your post. It is a big help.

On Davidson, would you say this is more of a "century bike" rather than a "racer bike"?
I do not race but I do club rides and with friends. I would like the bike to be lightweight on climbs, handle curves and descents very well, and will not punish my body on long rides. It will be the kind of bike one person will take on Death Ride. FYI, I currently own an EL-OS Italian bike and a Trek carbon bike. I prefer the steel bike on long rides but I always opt for the Trek whenever there is a major climb. With the description in mind, would you say this best describe Davidson?

Thanks again.
 

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here comes trouble
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terry b said:
How odd, I just happen to have one of each.
You crack me up. :D

PS - if one of your horses or doggies or prized posessions is ever kidnapped and held hostage in exchange for a pink CK headset, you'll know I'm the one who's behind it all. Jealooouuus.
 

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paint said:
You crack me up. :D

PS - if one of your horses or doggies or prized posessions is ever kidnapped and held hostage in exchange for a pink CK headset, you'll know I'm the one who's behind it all. Jealooouuus.
just steal the bike, you keep the headset and I will buy the frame from you. :D
 

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eminence grease
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It's a good, all-around bike. I use it for local hauls and I use it for tough centuries. It's light enough that it gets me up the nastiest hills with my lungs still in my chest, and it could be made lighter with a different set of wheels.

Between the two, for long haul comfort I give it a bit of an edge. But again, it's hard to say if it's something to do with the wheels or the frame itself. I think it's probably the former.

You won't go wrong either way, I love my Moots. But, living where you live you have an interesting opportunity to get involved in the build process and you'll end up with a bike that's yours and yours alone. Those two items might be enough to push the decision in that direction.
 

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here comes trouble
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terry b said:
Here's a horse to consider kidnapping.
The cake eating thing is cute, but I can't have a horse whose hair I'd spend twice as much time on as my own. My graduation from law school present to myself is going to be a horse (and hopefully a place to put it). Or a Moots. Not sure which one yet. :wink:
 

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eminence grease
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paint said:
The cake eating thing is cute, but I can't have a horse whose hair I'd spend twice as much time on as my own. My graduation from law school present to myself is going to be a horse (and hopefully a place to put it). Or a Moots. Not sure which one yet. :wink:
The Moots will eat far less and you don't have to clean up after it.

Take my word for it. :)
 
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