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I see tons of the Euro dudes using deep dish wheels for cross. Looks like Todd Wells and JP were even using deep dish wheels last season. What is the advantage? Is it for the aero or for mud busting? Do tell....
Deep Dish Wheels for Cross???
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They're used because they are very light, and they go through mud and sand considerably better than a regular traditionally shaped rim. Mud has to be deeper to close over into the spokes with a tall rim, it has a pizza cutter effect. The fat knobby tire interrupts the aerodynamics, I don't think they give an aero advantage.crossbishop said:
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no aero advantage
I find it hard to imagine 'cross pros picking up enough speed to aquire an aero advantage. Perhaps at the finish line?
here we go: http://www.diablocyclists.com/aerowheels.htm
"we see that discs can have upwards of 40 W less resistance than a standard 32-spoked box rim wheel. It translates to as much as maybe 1 mph speeds above 24 and as much as 2 mph at speeds above 30. 2 mph equates to roughly a racing category upgrade (e.g. cat 3 to cat 2)"
Also dont forget the good Zipp tech: http://www.zipp.com/tech/aero.shtm
Remember a cyclocross race is twisty, full of intervals and spectator friendly (the pros are cruising along slow enough to see them, ring a bell and run to the next section).
PS I think the bike industry created the "myth" off aero to obtain more square inches of advertising space. Good conspiracy theory.
I find it hard to imagine 'cross pros picking up enough speed to aquire an aero advantage. Perhaps at the finish line?
here we go: http://www.diablocyclists.com/aerowheels.htm
"we see that discs can have upwards of 40 W less resistance than a standard 32-spoked box rim wheel. It translates to as much as maybe 1 mph speeds above 24 and as much as 2 mph at speeds above 30. 2 mph equates to roughly a racing category upgrade (e.g. cat 3 to cat 2)"
Also dont forget the good Zipp tech: http://www.zipp.com/tech/aero.shtm
Remember a cyclocross race is twisty, full of intervals and spectator friendly (the pros are cruising along slow enough to see them, ring a bell and run to the next section).
PS I think the bike industry created the "myth" off aero to obtain more square inches of advertising space. Good conspiracy theory.
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On any good cross course there will be higher speed sections where aero would count. From what I've read anything above 12 mph or so you start realizing speed gains due to wheel aerodynamics.kannas said:
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Because of the big tire, these deep wheels won't work the way that they're designed to as far as aerodynamics. Many guys that are using these wheels are going plenty fast. The reason that they use them (or any lightweight wheel) is quick accelleration, and the advantages of this shape in mud. Go check out analyticcycling.com.Dwayne Barry said:
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All factors negate each other
Lower tire pressure.
Course conditions.
Stop and go acceleration.
Cross wind resistance.
I think the pros ride what's offered.
Equipment selection and set up is far more critical than a fancy set of deep dish wheels.
If the race calls for high speeds, has low wind resistance, smooth in general. Perhaps those zipps 404s can help you out. Although I would think having your tire selection and pressure dialed in will get your further in the race than simply aero wheels.
Is that what cyclocross racers wear skinsuits, to cut on drag? I dont think so.
Lower tire pressure.
Course conditions.
Stop and go acceleration.
Cross wind resistance.
I think the pros ride what's offered.
Equipment selection and set up is far more critical than a fancy set of deep dish wheels.
If the race calls for high speeds, has low wind resistance, smooth in general. Perhaps those zipps 404s can help you out. Although I would think having your tire selection and pressure dialed in will get your further in the race than simply aero wheels.
Is that what cyclocross racers wear skinsuits, to cut on drag? I dont think so.
I totally agree, light wheels= quick accelleration. When i go from my Reflex's (1400g-ish) to my 303's (1100g) the difference is incredible. On super tight twisty courses when accelleration is key to stay on someones wheel out of a 180 deg corner, its a no brainer. I also noticed a HUGE difference in the mud at Nats in Portland when i went from the A bike with 440 deep dish wheels/Grifo's to my B bike with Reflex/Grifo's (same size tire on both) every half lap. I dont think there was any aero advantage that day though since I doubt i ever went over 14mph except for the start strait away.wunlap togo said:
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Barb and I used a couple pairs Easton wheels with 404 rims, some '06 dimpled Zipp 404 Pave's and a couple pairs of '07 Zipp 303 Pave's (also dimpled). The deep shape makes a big difference in the mud when it's more than tire deep (although the dimples don't make a bit of difference, all Zipp rims come with them now so that's just what you get). The 303s that we'll be using next season are really perfect for cross, lighter than the 404 yet still deep enough to slice through the mud. They have a new hub design and the rims have a reinforced gluing/braking area that will take the abuse of cross. I don't know the exact weight but they're really light with the Dugast tires.DPCX said:I totally agree, light wheels= quick accelleration. When i go from my Reflex's (1400g-ish) to my 303's (1100g) the difference is incredible. On super tight twisty courses when accelleration is key to stay on someones wheel out of a 180 deg corner, its a no brainer. I also noticed a HUGE difference in the mud at Nats in Portland when i went from the A bike with 440 deep dish wheels/Grifo's to my B bike with Reflex/Grifo's (same size tire on both) every half lap. I dont think there was any aero advantage that day though since I doubt i ever went over 14mph except for the start strait away.
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