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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I was wondering if anyone has a procedure they go through to check their work when gluing sewups? Trying to rip the tire off at nominal pressure, how it feels attached to the rim at 20psi, whatever?

I just installed some Sprinters using Continental yellow tube glue. Years ago most of my team would install tubulars using 3M FasTack trim adhesive (no flames please, as I realize it had a reputation of causing basetape to separate. Although that never seemed to happen with the Contis as it did with the Vittorias). If I recall we often had a single cured layer of mastic on the rim, then we put down the relatively wet layer of FastTack on the tire and the rim, quickly attached the tire, straightened it, inflated it to full pressure, gave it 24 hours, then raced on it.

Now, with the Conti glue (and way back when, I had used Vittoria Mastic and even Clement) the procedure feels different because of the 2 to 3 days of laying down 3 coats on rim and tire then 24 hours after the last coats putting down a final coat on both and installing the tire. I guess what feels different is the final installation step with the FastTack was very sloppy as both rim and tire had glue that was still very liquid. This recent installation that I did was not messy at all and you had to react quickly as the adhesion began just stretching the tire over the rim and you had to be quick with tire straightening.

So it's just the difference in my procedure and my observations of how the initial adhesion went that makes me ask if anyone has a test for how well the job was performed. Hope I am making sense but I guess I am less confident of the tire than when I was using 3M FastTack.
 

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Russian Troll Farmer
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I've always thought that the 'multiple layers over several days' technique is something that only appeals to those with OCD, and is for the most part hogwash. Put down a layer, wait for it to get tacky, then put the tire on. The rest is just ritual that doesn't add a lot to the bond between the rim and the tire. Perhaps if you are a professional racing team, it might make a little sense.

As far as glue types go, FasTack was something that people used if they had to bond the tire quickly (like in an hour), and really made no sense to use otherwise. It also dried out in a few weeks, leaving a dry, brittle layer which would easily fail. FasTack was meant to only be used short-term.

In recent years, I've used Conti glue, Vittoria Mastik, and Challenge. I haven't used any of the old gutta glues like Tubasti in years, and probably never will again. They don't dry out, but the bond just isn't as strong, and they also make a mess. I used to use Tubasti on my cold-weather wheels, just because it's nearly impossible to remove a tubular glued on with mastic in the cold.

FWIW, Sprinters go on tight enough that ANY glue job will keep them in place. Unless you are racing, just glue them on and ride 'em...
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
All good points. I will rebut one, because I used FastTak for many years racing and it never dried out and would last the entire season. It was just as hard to get the tire off as with Mastic, held onto the spare just as well and when cleaning the rims down to bare, pulled off and scraped off no differently than Mastic. Yes, we used it to be a quick job and to me it went on a lot wetter on both the rim and the basetape. Gee that 3M tube lasted a long time and as I said it didn't seem to impact my Continental basetapes, only the Vittorias for some reason.

The training races that I still try to do maybe make me glad that I used Continental's multicoat instructions. Of course it does help them sell glue. Took me 4 tubes for the wheelset.
 

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My method involves a thin layer on the rim, a thin layer on the tire, let dry for a day, heavier layer on the tire, mount, add some air, straighten, inflate, let sit for a day or two.
A teammate of mine had a problem with base tape separation on Conti's......I discovered that he was using Mastik one on his Conti's....He changed to using Conti glue when i told him about an article I read about the solvents in Vittoria glue. He never had that problem again.....Conti glue works well with Conti's and Vittoria's.
 

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Mr Grumpy's response sounds like the advice I got from CX Wrench several years ago and still using. No issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks, all. Well at least I think I may have been overly conservative with my gluing protocols and I have allayed my fears.
 

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I've always thought that the 'multiple layers over several days' technique is something that only appeals to those with OCD, and is for the most part hogwash.
Basically agree. Nothing in adhesive theory suggests multiple layers of the same glue offers anything unless the first layer is so thin it doesn't really coat the surfaces.
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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I've probably mounted over 1500 tubulars in the last 25 years and I would NEVER count on 1 layer of glue on both the rim and the tire to hold the tire on. If we're talking new, 2 layers w/ around 12 hours drying time on each the rim and the tire. Lots of tires have raw/uncoated base tape and 1 coat gets almost completely absorbed into the tape, you must have a second to saturate the tape. I put 2 thin-ish coats on the rim, both get the 12ish hours to dry. The tires go on w/ the glue dry, and the rim gets 1 more medium thick coat. I roll the uninflated tire/wheel over a broomstick and then inflate to something over 100psi. They sit overnight and then I'll try to push the tire away from the rim to confirm the install is good. Some people have had good luck w/ tape, some w/ less than the number of coats of glue I do. Given that I've never had a tire roll the season it was glued I'll stick w/ my method. I use Mastik 1 on everything. I don't like Conti glue. Tape is for presents getting wrapped, not adhering tires to rims.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I've probably mounted over 1500 tubulars in the last 25 years and I would NEVER count on 1 layer of glue on both the rim and the tire to hold the tire on. If we're talking new, 2 layers w/ around 12 hours drying time on each the rim and the tire. Lots of tires have raw/uncoated base tape and 1 coat gets almost completely absorbed into the tape, you must have a second to saturate the tape. I put 2 thin-ish coats on the rim, both get the 12ish hours to dry. The tires go on w/ the glue dry, and the rim gets 1 more medium thick coat. I roll the uninflated tire/wheel over a broomstick and then inflate to something over 100psi. They sit overnight and then I'll try to push the tire away from the rim to confirm the install is good. Some people have had good luck w/ tape, some w/ less than the number of coats of glue I do. Given that I've never had a tire roll the season it was glued I'll stick w/ my method. I use Mastik 1 on everything. I don't like Conti glue. Tape is for presents getting wrapped, not adhering tires to rims.
This is very similar to what I have been doing except I do 3 coats to rim and to tire, then another light coat to the base tape and rim, then mounting. I too use the broomstick to make sure the tire is fully seated in the rim cavity, then after 24 hours I too try to push the tire away. So, this is what I was looking for as for confirmation. thx.
 

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'brifter' is f'ing stupid
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This is very similar to what I have been doing except I do 3 coats to rim and to tire, then another light coat to the base tape and rim, then mounting. I too use the broomstick to make sure the tire is fully seated in the rim cavity, then after 24 hours I too try to push the tire away. So, this is what I was looking for as for confirmation. thx.
Sounds good. The only thing I don't see the need for is putting a coat on the tire when you mount it. This greatly increased the chances of glue getting on the sidewall of the rim, and all over you hands/fingers. If there is wet glue on the rim there is no need for it on the tire.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Interesting that CX does not like Conti glue. To be honest, I could not distinguish it's performance from Mastic One.
 

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Russian Troll Farmer
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..... Of course it does help them sell glue. Took me 4 tubes for the wheelset.
I think you deserve some sort of award for that. I have never heard of anybody using 2 entire tubes of glue for each rim before, and I'd be surprised if in a couple of years, that ridiculously thick layer of mastic you have doesn't dry and crack! I once bought a used tubular wheelset where somebody probably let this much glue build up over several years, and it was a royal pain to clean the tire bed off to start over. For that glue job, I used exactly 1 tube for the entire wheelset....

FWIW, when I prepare the rim, I do so with a very light layer, layed on by one of those cheap disposable brushes with the metal tube that you can buy by the dozen at Harbor Freight.

Question for Mr. Grumpy: I got a great deal on an entire box of Challenge glue tubes, and was wondering if you've heard of any compatibility issues between that and any other tire brands?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think you deserve some sort of award for that. I have never heard of anybody using 2 entire tubes of glue for each rim before, and I'd be surprised if in a couple of years, that ridiculously thick layer of mastic you have doesn't dry and crack! I once bought a used tubular wheelset where somebody probably let this much glue build up over several years, and it was a royal pain to clean the tire bed off to start over. For that glue job, I used exactly 1 tube for the entire wheelset....

FWIW, when I prepare the rim, I do so with a very light layer, layed on by one of those cheap disposable brushes with the metal tube that you can buy by the dozen at Harbor Freight.

Question for Mr. Grumpy: I got a great deal on an entire box of Challenge glue tubes, and was wondering if you've heard of any compatibility issues between that and any other tire brands?
Fwiw, I too use a plumber's flux brush (metal tube) and all layers were lightly applied edge to edge (on vintage rims, at that, a GL330 and Reflex). After years of misbehavior, I decided to mount Continental Tubs using Conti glue and the Conti instructions. For consistency, I am also going to load them up with Continental Revo sealant. My expectation is that Conti will certainly hear from me if their products fail when in concert.

That, and I think the tubes of glue are getting smaller than my recollection...or maybe Conit glue does not go as far as Mastic after all.
 

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I think you deserve some sort of award for that. I have never heard of anybody using 2 entire tubes of glue for each rim before, and I'd be surprised if in a couple of years, that ridiculously thick layer of mastic you have doesn't dry and crack! I once bought a used tubular wheelset where somebody probably let this much glue build up over several years, and it was a royal pain to clean the tire bed off to start over. For that glue job, I used exactly 1 tube for the entire wheelset....

FWIW, when I prepare the rim, I do so with a very light layer, layed on by one of those cheap disposable brushes with the metal tube that you can buy by the dozen at Harbor Freight.

Question for Mr. Grumpy: I got a great deal on an entire box of Challenge glue tubes, and was wondering if you've heard of any compatibility issues between that and any other tire brands?
You cleaned the old glue off the rims and then used 1 tube for both wheels? Not sure why you'd be bragging about this, it's nowhere near enough glue.
Challenge glue is good, it seems to have more solvents than Vittoria...it really had a strong smell the last time I used it. I just prefer Vittoria in the cans. Generally when I'm gluing tires I'm doing a bunch so the cans are the only way to go. They also seem to last pretty long on the shelf in between jobs.
 

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ridiculously thick layer of mastic you have doesn't dry and crack! I
I've had the experience where a thick layer of glue (build up) softened in extreme heat and the tire became unstable on the rim. Instead of the glue holding the tire to the rim, it was like there was a "third phase." I learned that lesson and thereafter at least partially cleaned the rim when I saw the buildup. Aromatic solvents (toluene, xylene) are the best for cleaning tubular glue off the rim.
 

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Interesting that CX does not like Conti glue. To be honest, I could not distinguish it's performance from Mastic One.
The article i read 20 some years ago, said the mastik 1 and Conti glue were the two best. One of them was slightly better than the other....All the rest were crap.
I have some Comps that have been glued on for a few years. The last time I had to change one because of wear, my thumbs were so sore, it took me over 15 minutes to get it off. I finally had to use a screwdriver to break the bond and roll under the tire for a foot or so, before I could pull it off.
 

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I put a thin layer on the rim, a thin layer on the tire (leaving 5 inches of no glue opposite the stem), let dry for a minute, then mount. Assuming of course that there is old glue on the rim.

If it's a new rim, I go through 2-3 days of applying glue, letting it dry, then applying another layer, letting it dry, reapplying, etc...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I would most likely also use that procedure. A good reason not to mix glue brands and I wouldn't want a bulky old glue residue to start with. New rim, new tire, I still believe you have to go several light coats with days between curing.

Guess ultimately I miss 3M FasTack.
 

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I was wondering if anyone has a procedure they go through to check their work when gluing sewups? Trying to rip the tire off at nominal pressure, how it feels attached to the rim at 20psi, whatever?

I just installed some Sprinters using Continental yellow tube glue. Years ago most of my team would install tubulars using 3M FasTack trim adhesive (no flames please, as I realize it had a reputation of causing basetape to separate. Although that never seemed to happen with the Contis as it did with the Vittorias). If I recall we often had a single cured layer of mastic on the rim, then we put down the relatively wet layer of FastTack on the tire and the rim, quickly attached the tire, straightened it, inflated it to full pressure, gave it 24 hours, then raced on it.

Now, with the Conti glue (and way back when, I had used Vittoria Mastic and even Clement) the procedure feels different because of the 2 to 3 days of laying down 3 coats on rim and tire then 24 hours after the last coats putting down a final coat on both and installing the tire. I guess what feels different is the final installation step with the FastTack was very sloppy as both rim and tire had glue that was still very liquid. This recent installation that I did was not messy at all and you had to react quickly as the adhesion began just stretching the tire over the rim and you had to be quick with tire straightening.

So it's just the difference in my procedure and my observations of how the initial adhesion went that makes me ask if anyone has a test for how well the job was performed. Hope I am making sense but I guess I am less confident of the tire than when I was using 3M FastTack.
Tape and tape ...i would glue wait days many coats wipe mess all that stuff...Tape Velox Jantex 76 ...i am not paid by them or endorse but my repair guy said stop gluing and wasting time...went with the tape never a issue never rolled nuttin...TAPE
 

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I think you deserve some sort of award for that. I have never heard of anybody using 2 entire tubes of glue for each rim before, and I'd be surprised if in a couple of years, that ridiculously thick layer of mastic you have doesn't dry and crack! I once bought a used tubular wheelset where somebody probably let this much glue build up over several years, and it was a royal pain to clean the tire bed off to start over. For that glue job, I used exactly 1 tube for the entire wheelset....

FWIW, when I prepare the rim, I do so with a very light layer, layed on by one of those cheap disposable brushes with the metal tube that you can buy by the dozen at Harbor Freight.

Question for Mr. Grumpy: I got a great deal on an entire box of Challenge glue tubes, and was wondering if you've heard of any compatibility issues between that and any other tire brands?
I've never heard much about that glue, but at one time, Challange tires were made in the same factory that made Vittoria's.
 
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