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I just read on discovery team website that they won the TDF team TT the last 3 years.
Is this because Lance was on their team, they're the strongest team, coincidence,
or something else?

There are other teams which should have an chance at winning it.
 

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not Dope, more likely Teamwork

steel515 said:
I just read on discovery team website that they won the TDF team TT the last 3 years.
Is this because Lance was on their team, they're the strongest team, coincidence,
or something else?

There are other teams which should have an chance at winning it.
CSC nearly won it (2 sec, I believe) last year and very well might have if not for Zabriskie's fall. It helps to have good individual time trialists on your team (which Disco has), but it's not imperative. For example, Liberty Seguros has performed well in the TTT in past years, but they didn't have anyone who would blow your doors off in an ITT. I think the main reason Disco has done so well is that they practice the TTT a lot.
 

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They certainly have no issues about hiring guys with checkered pasts and investigations, but there are also a lot of teams that don't focus on the TTT or even practice it more than a couple times before showing up so it's also a function of the competition.
 

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checkered past?

terzo rene said:
They certainly have no issues about hiring guys with checkered pasts and investigations...
Not trying to sound like a Disco homer, but which riders have had a checkered past or investigations? The only one I can think of are Padrnos (part of some italian raid IIRC when he was on another team). Joachim got busted while on USPS (but I think was cleared?), and I don't know of any other riders with "checkered pasts" that they hired. What are the ones that you know of?
 

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Paolo Savoldellli. He was one of the many riders whose name showed up in the notebooks of Ferrari.

From an old news story:
"After the race, the Italian police took away 6 riders for questioning by district attorney Giovanni Spinosa of Bologna. The riders were Paolo Savoldelli, Ivan Gotti, Pavel Tonkov, Alessandro Bertolini, Gian Luca Bortolami and Axel Merckx. They were taken to the Carabinieri headquarters in Alassio to be questioned as witnesses in a doping investigation of sports doctor Michele Ferrari, who has been coaching the riders at one time or another during their careers."

Seems like there have been a couple others in the last few years but I haven't paid much attention to the rest of the roster lately. Since Heras and Hamilton were both caught post Postal they clearly couldn't be counted since they never would have done so while there. ;-)
 

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steel515 said:
I just read on discovery team website that they won the TDF team TT the last 3 years.
Is this because Lance was on their team, they're the strongest team, coincidence,
or something else?

There are other teams which should have an chance at winning it.
Unlikely, as even in the days of pretty much unrestricted doping there were riders on Festina (Bassons was one) that were not dopers. Nowadays more than likely it is only certain riders with the right connections who dope since it is unlikely any teams organize the doping themselves. Finally, what makes you think the level of doping at Discovery would be any different than that of any of the other big teams? It's not like they were ever even the best team in the world outside of the Tour. Their dominance there was due to having the dominant rider with a purpose-built team around him. Only a few other teams even had serious contenders and rarely if ever was the team organized solely around that GC rider.
 

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don't speculate when it hasn't even been proven that lance dopes. the Original Poster said he found out that disco/usps won the ttt the last 3 years.....if you just found that out now, you're not knowledgable enough to be throwing out speculations based on assumptions and circumstancial evidence, if it is even worthy of that title. No offence meant or anything, and i know you're just looking for opinions, but it sounds like you're kind of jumping to a conclusion too.
 

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cmatcan said:
don't speculate when it hasn't even been proven that lance dopes. the Original Poster said he found out that disco/usps won the ttt the last 3 years.....if you just found that out now, you're not knowledgable enough to be throwing out speculations based on assumptions and circumstancial evidence, if it is even worthy of that title. No offence meant or anything, and i know you're just looking for opinions, but it sounds like you're kind of jumping to a conclusion too.
I don't think I was assuming Lance doped for my response. What I assumed is that there is no reason to think Discovery riders were doing any more/less doping than any other team at the TDF simply based on their TTT performance.
 

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steel515 said:
I just read on discovery team website that they won the TDF team TT the last 3 years.
Is this because Lance was on their team, they're the strongest team, coincidence,
or something else?

There are other teams which should have an chance at winning it.

Have you seen how crappily the other teams ride? They don't ride like a team doing a time trial.

Watch and learn how it is done from the disco boys.
 

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well I like simple logic

them good, them dope.

I'm convinced
 

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terzo rene said:
Paolo Savoldellli. He was one of the many riders whose name showed up in the notebooks of Ferrari.

From an old news story:
"After the race, the Italian police took away 6 riders for questioning by district attorney Giovanni Spinosa of Bologna. The riders were Paolo Savoldelli, Ivan Gotti, Pavel Tonkov, Alessandro Bertolini, Gian Luca Bortolami and Axel Merckx. They were taken to the Carabinieri headquarters in Alassio to be questioned as witnesses in a doping investigation of sports doctor Michele Ferrari, who has been coaching the riders at one time or another during their careers."

Seems like there have been a couple others in the last few years but I haven't paid much attention to the rest of the roster lately. Since Heras and Hamilton were both caught post Postal they clearly couldn't be counted since they never would have done so while there. ;-)
Guilt by association--nothing better.
 

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I second that!

CSC was good last year but Disco was a machine! I've never liked the TTT but that was poetry in motion. Plus, the Disco boys have all been in the wind tunnel (I think)

Another example I've always found telling is looking at the difference in the way Lances drinks during a TT and the way Ullrich does. Put that much focus and dicipline into every day and into everyone on the team and there's the difference between unbelievable talent with one GC win and unbelievable talent with 7 straight.
 

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hayaku said:
CSC was good last year but Disco was a machine! I've never liked the TTT but that was poetry in motion. Plus, the Disco boys have all been in the wind tunnel (I think)

Another example I've always found telling is looking at the difference in the way Lances drinks during a TT and the way Ullrich does. Put that much focus and dicipline into every day and into everyone on the team and there's the difference between unbelievable talent with one GC win and unbelievable talent with 7 straight.
Yeah but he still fussed with his shorts which negated a lot of the other tweaks.
 

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hayaku said:
Put that much focus and dicipline into every day and into everyone on the team and there's the difference between unbelievable talent with one GC win and unbelievable talent with 7 straight.
And Heras's incredible focus was what won the last three Vueltas for him. Those other guys were just lazy. If only they would have had the attention of detail that Heras had. The EPO had nothing to do with it. Just as it had nothing to do the Armstrong's wins. It was all down to focus. :)
 

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Gotta admit, it's true though.

Ever actually watched Ullrich drink during a TT? Looks like one elbow is on the bar while chugging down a beer after a hard day at the office before going home to his nagging wife and screaming kids...

I don't particularlly trust Armstrong but if you don't trust him, what reason do you have to trust Ullrich? Beloki? Kloden? Basso, Menchov, etc...
 

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hayaku said:
I don't particularlly trust Armstrong but if you don't trust him, what reason do you have to trust Ullrich? Beloki? Kloden? Basso, Menchov, etc...
Absolutely none. There are no reasons to think that the winners who have been caught Frigo, Millar, Heras, Hamilton, Museeuw, Armstrong were do anything different than the other winners. Especially when many of them weren't caught by the drug testing itself.
 
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