[MaddSkillz]

So, I know, you know, we know there were are dopers that have confessed or have been found out by other means however they did not fail drug tests... Who are these riders? Is there a list somewhere.

What I'm finding people say is that "Well, he never failed a drug test," and I simply state that we know from others who were later caught that they were doping and testing negative at the same time. So the tests don't always point to innocence... Anyway, I'm just looking for some big names that got away with it as far as the tests are concerned.

Thanks

 

[MG537]

Jan Ullrich never directly admitted and wasn't caught by any test.
Ivan Basso, only intended to dope, according to him.
Michael Rasmussen, only thing he did wrong was lie about his whereabouts.
Bjarne Riis, never got caught. Admitted years later.
The following I'm not that sure about.
Erik Zabel, only admitted after his retirement.
Wasn't Johan Musseuw in the same boat as Erik?

 

[MaddSkillz]

So how does Jan Ullrich fit on the list if he never admitted and wasn't caught? I'll need to look into that.

Ivan Basso, I believe did dope. But then there's that 1% of me that wonder if he really did just intend to since he hadn't been caught with dope running thrugh his veins.

Thanks for the rest.

 

[orange_julius]

Jan Ullrich never directly admitted and wasn't caught by any test.
Ivan Basso, only intended to dope, according to him.
Michael Rasmussen, only thing he did wrong was lie about his whereabouts.
Bjarne Riis, never got caught. Admitted years later.
The following I'm not that sure about.
Erik Zabel, only admitted after his retirement.
Wasn't Johan Musseuw in the same boat as Erik?

Correct, Museeuw was caught because his veterinarian, who was administering the drug, was caught.

And the entire squad of Festina riders in 1998 was caught only because their soigneur was caught driving a huge carload of EPO and other stuff. None of them ever tested positive in a test.

So add Virenque, Dufaux, Brochard, Herve to the list.

Add also Valverde, also of Operacion Puerto.

Hell, even VDB was caught only because he was speeding with loads of EPO in his trunk. He never tested positive.

 

[Coolhand]

Most of the Fignon/Badger/Lemond era dopers did not get caught. Institutionalized team doping was the rule Pre-Festina, and the riders and teams were way ahead of the testers at that point.

Pre-Festina, pretty much everyone was "preparing" for racing with Doping. But only a few have come clean- the Professor's cancer spurred him to talk. Not sure if anything will get the others too.

 

[Coolhand]

Figure most-many riders pre-2000 were doping (even maybe my beloved Big Mig), and even with the better testing post 2000, way too many still were. And today- who knows. Given Vino's ride in the TdF this year, doping aint dead among the GC riders.

 

[MaddSkillz]

Figure most-many riders pre-2000 were doping (even maybe my beloved Big Mig), and even with the better testing post 2000, way too many still were. And today- who knows. Given Vino's ride in the TdF this year, doping aint dead among the GC riders.

Geez... So you think Vino is doping even after being banned for being caught?

 

[mohair_chair]

Fignon got caught, but it wasn't a big deal back then. A few weeks off from racing and a $60 fine.

 

[Coolhand]

Geez... So you think Vino is doping even after being banned for being caught?

Yep. I think he's doped to the gills.

 

[Coolhand]

Fignon got caught, but it wasn't a big deal back then. A few weeks off from racing and a $60 fine.

Didn't remember that- what did they catch him for?

 

[SilasCL]

Wasn't Beloki named in Puerto? I don't remember 100%.
If you believe Jesus Manzano, he would qualify too.
Frankie Andreu goes in the same category as Zabel and Riis, sure they didn't test positive but there also wasn't a test for EPO back then, so it's not really the same thing.

 

[covenant]

Yep. I think he's doped to the gills.

I like Vino doped...and riding crazy. :thumbsup:

 

[Coolhand]

I like Vino doped...and riding crazy. :thumbsup:

Fair enough-

 

[orange_julius]

Didn't remember that- what did they catch him for?

Amphetamine / speed, I think? He admits it as much in his autobiography.

 

[Dwayne Barry]

There were a bunch of OP riders (e.g. Sevilla, Ullrich, Basso, Guttierez, Mancebo) that never tested positive but either got suspended because their blood was matched or they were just black-listed.

Jesker Skippy has talked about his drug use, but not sure if he failed a test or not at some point. I know there are several others.

 

[Gatorback]

Isn't homologous blood doping still undetectable through testing? I thought they could only detect if someone else's blood was used, but I could be wrong.

I could easily see riders pursuing a program where they use the micro doses of EPO while training, then go clean during a race but dope with their own blood.

 

[den bakker]

Jesker Skippy has talked about his drug use, but not sure if he failed a test or not at some point. I know there are several others.

don't think he was busted.
neither was Hamburger, technically.

 

[HikenBike]

Isn't homologous blood doping still undetectable through testing? I thought they could only detect if someone else's blood was used, but I could be wrong.

I could easily see riders pursuing a program where they use the micro doses of EPO while training, then go clean during a race but dope with their own blood.

Correct on all accounts. Plus EPO is detectable for 3 days max, but the benefits last 14 days on average.

 

[mohair_chair]

I think homologous blood doping is detectable on some level. They can tell when there are old and new cells in the blood, for instance, by looking at it under a microscope. But while the presence of old and new cells is suspicious, it doesn't automatically indicate blood doping. So there isn't a test for it.

 

[HikenBike]

I think homologous blood doping is detectable on some level. They can tell when there are old and new cells in the blood, for instance, by looking at it under a microscope. But while the presence of old and new cells is suspicious, it doesn't automatically indicate blood doping. So there isn't a test for it.

Correction for my previous post. I often initially get homologous and autologous mixed up. Homologous transfusions are currently detectable (i.e. Tyler Hamilton). Autologous (own blood) transfusions are currently non-detectable. I've read articles similar to your post. Somehow the scientists are trying to determine the difference between stored blood and non-stored blood. Meanwhile this is the doping method of choice since the odds of getting caught are just above nil, nada, zero, zilch.

The "never failed a test" is not a solid defense against doping accusations. Especially when those doping claims are specifically to autologous blood transfusions.