Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
21 - 40 of 43 Posts

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,341 Posts
I just used the Open Pros as an example. I've had other rims crack and fail. Trek/Bontrager have been the worst. I crack and failed a Torelli, but that was after a lot of miles.
I don't know very many people who HAVEN'T cracked a Bontrager rim - especially when they were doing the paired spoke design. Yours truly for one! 4K miles and the rear wheel was toast. And I only weigh 175lbs!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
943 Posts
I don't know very many people who HAVEN'T cracked a Bontrager rim - especially when they were doing the paired spoke design. Yours truly for one! 4K miles and the rear wheel was toast. And I only weigh 175lbs!
I wonder if there is any failure analysis on these rims. Could it be too high a spoke tension, too few spokes, wrong choice of aluminum alloy, quality problem with same, or too little strength at the spoke holes?

I knew someone that rode RAM and said the Rolf wheels he had were the longest lasting wheels he ever used, so I don't think paired spokes are necessarily bad for rim life.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,341 Posts
I wonder if there is any failure analysis on these rims. Could it be too high a spoke tension, too few spokes, wrong choice of aluminum alloy, quality problem with same, or too little strength at the spoke holes?

I knew someone that rode RAM and said the Rolf wheels he had were the longest lasting wheels he ever used, so I don't think paired spokes are necessarily bad for rim life.
Paired spokes concentrate forces rather than spread them out evenly. If you do that design, you need to have extra reinforcement at the spoke bed in the rim.

Somehow Rolf and Campy do this design without problems. Bontrager didn't. It could be anything you mentioned in your first paragraph or a combination of. I believe the Bonty wheels I had were 20/24 spoke count which I'm sure didn't help either.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
217 Posts
I don't know very many people who HAVEN'T cracked a Bontrager rim - especially when they were doing the paired spoke design. Yours truly for one! 4K miles and the rear wheel was toast. And I only weigh 175lbs!
I had a set of paired spoke Selects on an old Poprad. Those wheels were tanks. The only reason that I got rid of them was that I wore the rear brake track down too much. No cracks. So, some people have good luck with those things. Heh. The only rim I've cracked is an Easton EA90 XC MTB rim, and I'm pretty sure that was user error.

Anyway, the only (very slight, really not even worth mentioning) negative that I've noticed with many-spoked wheels is noise. I have a pair of 28/28 aero spoke wheels, and compared to my other 20/24 round spoke wheels, the "whir" at 20mph and above is noticeable. Maybe that's just a function of the aero spokes, but I've had other aero spoke wheels not do that. I guess there's also a slight bit of extra weight and a slight bit of extra work to clean them, and I personally think that having more spokes on my road bike than my MTBs looks a bit wrong.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,642 Posts
Repped! I just love it when I pass a 20-30 something guy up a hill with his $3K Zipp carbon wheels with minimal spoke count while I'm a 57 y.o. guy on my conventional 32 spoke alloy wheels! :thumbsup:
I have a 32 rear wheel.

Passing someone with low spoke carbon wheels in an imaginary race they don't know about does nothing for me.
 

·
Banned Sock Puppet
Joined
·
14,341 Posts
I have a 32 rear wheel.

Passing someone with low spoke carbon wheels in an imaginary race they don't know about does nothing for me.
That depends. If they're half my age, it's a big ego trip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,642 Posts
That depends. If they're half my age, it's a big ego trip.
No, it does not depend for me at all. I've passed former pros that are younger than me, sports cars and been passed by much older old overweight riders on a junk hybrid.
Getting a charge out of passing someone that has no clue there's competition going on is not for me.

Makes about as much sense as sucker punching someone on the street and thinking that says something about relative fighting ability.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
6,011 Posts
I have a 32 rear wheel.

Passing someone with low spoke carbon wheels in an imaginary race they don't know about does nothing for me.
Imaginary races are the only kind I can win! I can't defend it it by I do get some sort of perverse pleasure from passing someone on a tricked out high-zoot bike with my retro-steel stead and old-school wheels
 

·
wheelbuilder
Joined
·
2,220 Posts
Reread both phrases I highlighted here and you will see they contradict each other. In order for a rim to work reliably with 20 spokes, it needs to be heavier than a rim would need to be to work reliably with 32 spokes. Weight wise, it turns out to be nearly a wash.

Also, the aero advantages of using fewer spokes are negligible and won't be realized under 20mph. The rider is the least aero part of the bike.
Speaking about aluminium rims, I'd put the lightest rims I'd use for a 32 spoke wheel at around 410g and that would be questionable for a rear wheel. I regularly build sets of wheels with 44 spokes (20/24) to rims weighing 445g. The spoke weight difference at best (using all light gauge spokes) would be over 100g for the set and rim total is 70g. Yes that's close enough to argue it's a wash to many, but 30g it is. If the wheels are more aerodynamic (there is no minimum speed for there to be a gain) it's a win-win. Doesn't mean it will completely transform your riding, but the effects are cumulative and on 4-5 hour rides it's nice to have the advantage.

With carbon it's a no brainer. I have a wheelset that's 1022g. More aero than any 32 spoke wheel and about a pound lighter. They are strong enough for my daily riding and spirited sprints. I have 32/32 on my disc bike, but for rim brakes I'm very happy with low spoke counts.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,642 Posts

With carbon it's a no brainer. I have a wheelset that's 1022g
. More aero than any 32 spoke wheel and about a pound lighter. They are strong enough for my daily riding and spirited sprints. I have 32/32 on my disc bike, but for rim brakes I'm very happy with low spoke counts.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Clinchers? If so I'd be curious what rim, or rims, you've had that success with?
1022g is low enough to make me re-think carbon rims. But not to re-think tubular, that I know for sure ain't for me.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,696 Posts
I get custom wheels built from an outfit called Psimet. They've done three sets for me and they're nice. The first set I ordered the guy said to go with 28R/24F. I asked him about 32R and he said 'I can do that, but it won't make the wheel any stronger'. I took his advice. For my wife, he suggested 24R/20F. we've not had problems with any of his wheels.

Does increased spoke tension make wheels stronger? I remember the spokes on my old 32/32 Mavic Open 4 rims with DT DB spokes having much less tension than wheels do these days.
 

·
changingleaf
Joined
·
709 Posts
More tension does not make wheels stronger as long as the spokes have high enough tension to remain in a state of tension under normal riding conditions.

The max tension guidelines for rims is generally the way to go.

The strength of any given wheel is combination of the number of spokes, size of the spoke, strength of the rim, and bracing angle of the spokes.

I recommend only minimizing the number of spokes after taking into account the other factors plus the size and strength of the rider, the type of riding the wheels will be used for, and the amount robustness or safety factor the rider would like built into the wheels; that is accounting for riding events outside of normal riding conditions.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,440 Posts
Getting a charge out of passing someone that has no clue there's competition going on is not for me.
Exactly. I laugh hearing clowns bragging about passing someone on a nice bike or whatever. It means absolutely nothing at all. Maybe they are coming back from sickness, riding an easy day, coming back from an injury. . .
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
229 Posts
Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Exactly. I laugh hearing clowns bragging about passing someone on a nice bike or whatever. It means absolutely nothing at all. Maybe they are coming back from sickness, riding an easy day, coming back from an injury. . .
Good things to consider. As people pass me I can yell out "Hey, this is my recovery day!"
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,188 Posts
I don't know very many people who HAVEN'T cracked a Bontrager rim - especially when they were doing the paired spoke design. Yours truly for one! 4K miles and the rear wheel was toast. And I only weigh 175lbs!
I've got a rear Bontrager with cracks around a few of the holes. It's hanging on the wall in the garage. 5500 miles on it. But I'm a card carrying Clydesdale at 220 pounds.
 
21 - 40 of 43 Posts
Top