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I'm going to build a new set of wheels and was trying to decide between these two rims. Is the Aero head OC for thr rear a gimmick? Does this build a stronger rear wheel? Why aren't more rim manufacturers using this design? Are The DT Swiss RR 1.1 worth the extra money? Anyone use the Wheelsmith AE15 Bladed spokes?
 

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I can't speak from a wheel building perspective, but I do own wheels with both rims - one set of DT Swiss 240 hubs with RR1.1 rims, and a pair of Velomax Ascent II and Velocity Aerohead wheels, both with the Aerohead OC rims.

Both rims seem excellent to me, but the clincher (if you'll excuse the pun) is that it is just so much easier getting tires on the Velocity rims. I was terrified of having flats on the DT Swiss wheels because it would be such a pain to replace the tube, especially as these rims have already broken one of my sets of tire levers, and I didn't want to repeat the experience out on the road.

I am also thinking of having some new training wheels made and was planning to use the Aerohead OC because of this, as well as their stiffness, marginally greater aero benefit and the fact that they look good. The RR1.1 are probably the better rim technically (although I have no way of assessing this other than reputation and price), but in terms of practicality I would - and plan to - choose the Aeroheads.
 

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JAM66 said:
I'm going to build a new set of wheels and was trying to decide between these two rims. Is the Aero head OC for thr rear a gimmick? Does this build a stronger rear wheel? Why aren't more rim manufacturers using this design? Are The DT Swiss RR 1.1 worth the extra money? Anyone use the Wheelsmith AE15 Bladed spokes?
The offset is not a gimmick. Velocity, Bontrager, Campagnolo, IRD, and Alex (probably more that I'm missing all make offset rims. The tension is definetly higher on the non drive spokes. You can see it with a tensiometer. Is the design so much better that all non-offset rims are junk? No. There is plenty of high praise for Chris King hubs (with merit) and the flange design leads to pretty low tension on the non drive spokes. They still make good wheels.

The DT is a great rim as well. I just don't think that they are worth charging more than Velocity. I have two sets of clincher wheels in my personal inventory. The first set I didn't exactpy choose the parts for. I just had a rims here and there from other projects and laced them to 105 hubs for a set of wheels that cost me probably $75. You can't be choosy for that price, but I was lucky enought to have an Open Pro for the front and a CXP 30 for the rear. They are on my beater bike.

The wheels I chose to own are the the following:
Dura Ace 7800 hubs (even though I ride Campy 10)
Velocity Aerohead rims (OC rear)
Wheelsmith DB 14 spokes
brass nipples
radial front (7800 hubs are rated for it) heads out
radial non drive (heads out) and 2 cross drive

As someone who obsesses over wheels, this component choice took a long time to put together. The reasoning is that the non drive tension is almost equal to the drive side tension with this spoking. The 7800 hub had one of the largest center-flange measurements on the drive side (18.3mm last time I measured). This is because they are 10 speed specific and the freehub body is shorter. That is why you don't need the spacer that comes with 10 speed cassettes on the 7800 hub but it is required for other hubs. The flange spacing combined with the offst rear rims makes this an ideal combination.

I did radial front simply because I wanted to match the half radial rear. I could have crossed the front spokes, but I thought that wouldn't look as good of a match to the rear.

-Eric
 

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Tire mounting on DT Swiss

JAM66 said:
I'm going to build a new set of wheels and was trying to decide between these two rims. Is the Aero head OC for thr rear a gimmick? Does this build a stronger rear wheel? Why aren't more rim manufacturers using this design? Are The DT Swiss RR 1.1 worth the extra money? Anyone use the Wheelsmith AE15 Bladed spokes?
I think either rim is fine, as per ergott's recommendations.

I will second that tire mounting on the DT RR 1.1 is tough. I have them lined with Velox tape, which is on the thick side. Getting a tire on them is about the same in difficulty as it is to get a tire on my Campy Neutrons. I use Conti Supersonic tape on the Neutrons as it is very thin, and I may resort to using it on the DT rims as well even though my absolute preference is for Velox.
 

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I think it's a matter of practice. I've put on Michelin Pro Race and Veloflex Pave tires on DT rims without using levers. You don't really have to worry about getting punctures as the tires are easy to take off and mount once you've ridden them a bit.
 

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divve said:
I think it's a matter of practice. I've put on Michelin Pro Race and Veloflex Pave tires on DT rims without using levers. You don't really have to worry about getting punctures as the tires are easy to take off and mount once you've ridden them a bit.
Oh, I have years of practice. But I have to say the DT RR1.1/Velox cloth/Conti GP4000 combo, especially the front, are thumb breakers. It is actually tougher than my previous "winner", the Campy Neutron.

I'm not sure why the French rims (Mavic, Wolber back in the day) always have a slightly smaller wall diameter compared to the Italian rims (Campy, Ambrosio, FiR). But I know every Mavic clincher rim I have ever had seems super easy to get the tire on compared to most Italian rims I have ever had. I guess with DT being Swiss it could have went either way!
 

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Eric_H said:
Oh, I have years of practice. But I have to say the DT RR1.1/Velox cloth/Conti GP4000 combo, especially the front, are thumb breakers. It is actually tougher than my previous "winner", the Campy Neutron.

I'm not sure why the French rims (Mavic, Wolber back in the day) always have a slightly smaller wall diameter compared to the Italian rims (Campy, Ambrosio, FiR). But I know every Mavic clincher rim I have ever had seems super easy to get the tire on compared to most Italian rims I have ever had. I guess with DT being Swiss it could have went either way!
Veloplugs instead of Velocloth. That will solve this problem and you still get to use your favorite rim/tire combo. It's lighter to boot.

http://velocityusa.com/accessories.php

-Eric
 

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Eric_H said:
Oh, I have years of practice. But I have to say the DT RR1.1/Velox cloth/Conti GP4000 combo, especially the front, are thumb breakers.

Can't agree w/you more. I have the same combo and couldn't believe how difficult installing the tires was! Thumb breakers indeed. I had to resort to tire levers and it still wasn't 'easy'.
 

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so ergott there are no better hubs to build with than a da
as far as tension is concerned ? I am asking cause im
thinking of new wheels and was thiking dt or even speedsific
hubs. The campy hubs seem poor for tension. Whats the
best hub not worrying about $$$ thanks
 

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mls said:
so ergott there are no better hubs to build with than a da
as far as tension is concerned ? I am asking cause im
thinking of new wheels and was thiking dt or even speedsific
hubs. The campy hubs seem poor for tension. Whats the
best hub not worrying about $$$ thanks
I think your over simplifying what he said. Using Record hubs will in no way give you inferior wheels with tension problems. In fact using Record, DA, Ultegra, Chorus, DT, White....well, they're all good hubs.
 

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You can check the spoke tension balance with Spocalc. Play around with it a little and make your own combinations. Personally, I'm not too impressed with the Record hub geometry. For instance the Tune MAG190 is considerably nicer in that respect.
 

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mls said:
so ergott there are no better hubs to build with than a da
as far as tension is concerned ? I am asking cause im
thinking of new wheels and was thiking dt or even speedsific
hubs. The campy hubs seem poor for tension. Whats the
best hub not worrying about $$$ thanks
The Dura Ace 7800 has one of the best flange geometries out there. It is not to say that all other hubs make inferior wheels. After a quick measure, I turns out that Chris King hubs are 18mm from center on the drive side. That's only 0.3mm less than 7800. The Chris King hubs will have less tension on the non drive side due to their non drive flange spacing.

The calculator that divve is talking about is here:
http://www.damonrinard.com/spocalc.htm

You can play around with the different hub/rim combinations. Keep in mind that there is sometimes a big difference between the measurements in that database and actual measurements. Most of that is due to mfg being wrong. I've had hubs that were over 1mm off from what the mfg published.

For what it's worth, One of my favorite wheelsets that I own are Chorus/Reflex with DT Revolutions. Go figure.

-Eric
 
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