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Generally, what I read about this combo is too good to be true. Almost as light as Ksyrium SL's, bombproof, smooth, etc.
I am building up a Merlin Extralight and want a good set of wheels for event days. These are always either Ultra events or mountain climbs like Mt. Mitchell.

I weigh about 200# and am afraid of wheels under 1500g. Any thoughts on why the DA with OP would or wouldn't be a good choice?
 

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Wheel quality = more than the sum of the parts

vantongerloo said:
Generally, what I read about this combo is too good to be true. Almost as light as Ksyrium SL's, bombproof, smooth, etc.
I am building up a Merlin Extralight and want a good set of wheels for event days. These are always either Ultra events or mountain climbs like Mt. Mitchell.

I weigh about 200# and am afraid of wheels under 1500g. Any thoughts on why the DA with OP would or wouldn't be a good choice?
Determining the quality of a wheel is more than just the sum of its parts. How well they are put together plays a large roll in how durable they will be. Building durable wheels is not rocket science, but it is surprising how many people call themselves "wheel builders" because they can slap some parts together to make a round wheel, but don't understand some of the steps to take to guarantee that the wheel will stay round.

That being said, there is no reason that Mavic Open rims on Dura-Ace hubs can not be built into high quality wheels. From the Weightweenies site, it appears that Ksyrium SLs are typically delivered at just over 1600 grams. Mavic Open Pro rims with Dura-Ace hubs can actually be built under 1600 grams, depending on spoke choice. However, at your size, I would recommend using 36 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes in the rear and 32 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes in the front, which would make the wheels come in at just about the same weight as Ksyrium SLs. However, the Open Pro wheels will be less expensive and stiffer, and if they ever need work they will be quicker, easier and less expensive to repair.
 

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I second that...

Mark McM said:
....I would recommend using 36 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes in the rear and 32 2.0/1.8/2.0 spokes in the front, which would make the wheels come in at just about the same weight as Ksyrium SLs. However, the Open Pro wheels will be less expensive and stiffer, and if they ever need work they will be quicker, easier and less expensive to repair.
I am a clydesdale and I ride these eact wheels. They ride great. I used to ride Ksyrium's and the OP's are a lot less harsh. I have about 2000 miles on mine, been trued once. For what it's worth, I highly reccomend that wheelset.
 

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Not sure if this helps but I am 210pds and running CHris King Hubs, Mavic CXP-33, 32 front DT Revolutions 14/17/14, aluminum nips, 3 cross and 32 rear DT Comps 14/15/14 on drive side brass nips, and DT Revolutions 14/17/14 aluminum nips 3 cross. Wheels weigh 702 front 925 rear with rim tape. 1627grams total

I have had no problems with them. You can go with a lighter spoke if you use a stiffer rim. And a lighter spoke will bend more and last longer than say a 14 gauge spoke. The CXP-33 is a stiffer rim and would give a harsher ride than an open pro. I always felt that the open pro was to squshy for my weight. I go from 210 to 230 pd during the year.

The nice part about using a traditional wheel is that you can always get parts for it. In my opinon the factory wheels by Bontrager, Mavic, etc are just gimmics so you will buy newer wheels ever other year. I have had all my problems with factory wheels. Most problems I have had was the two spoke wheels like Rolfs and Bontragers. Kept pulling spokes out of the hub flanges. And they seem to change the design ever so often so the wheels are out of date and parts hard to find.

If you use a high end hub, good spokes, and a good rim you will never have to buy a new wheelset for a very long time. They might not look really cool. But if you ever broke a spoke on a factory wheel and had to walk home 10 miles you will wish you had a conventional wheel.

So at your weight you can run DT comps or Rev for the front and DT comps for the rear no problems,
 

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Open Pro...

wheels rock! I've had three sets built up by Excel Sports and they are unbelievable! I've got one set that is Chris King hubs 32 to OP rims, one set DA hubs 32 to OP rims and finally, a nice light set up of DA hubs 28 to OP rims with wheels laced radially on the front. I'm thinking of switching over to campy, and if I do, I'll still do OP rims.
 

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D'ace w open pro rule

vantongerloo said:
Generally, what I read about this combo is too good to be true. Almost as light as Ksyrium SL's, bombproof, smooth, etc.
I am building up a Merlin Extralight and want a good set of wheels for event days. These are always either Ultra events or mountain climbs like Mt. Mitchell.

I weigh about 200# and am afraid of wheels under 1500g. Any thoughts on why the DA with OP would or wouldn't be a good choice?

I am 6-4 about 250 bought a set a Performance for under 300 bucks with 7800 series hubs and 32 hole 3 cross DB spokes with brass nipples. Use them on my 63 cm 04 Cannondale R3000 - love the bike and like it even more with htese wheels than with the Mavic K's it came with.

Not that many miles yet but no issues.
Get them and do not for one minute think you could have done better. BTW I've have had problems with alloy nipples on Odds and Endos Speedcific wheels with DT R1.1 rims - alloy nipples used to be on my non drive side of my rear wheel- yanked out during first ride - called Mike Garcia and shockenly no response - had my LBS change the nipples now no issues. Still like the D'ace open pro wheels much better.
 

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I'm taking delivery on a new wheelset next week based on DT Swiss R1.1 rims. My builder convinced me to go brass all the way around. He stated that this would be set it and forget it, versus having to periodically lube the alloy nipples. FWI, I have a set of Mike Garcia SpeedCific/Aeroheads with alloy everywhere but drive-side, which was his recommendation. I've had the wheels over a year with no issues. As to communicating with Mike, I haven't had to do so since I bought the wheels, but I hear frequent reports that he not only answers his phone but tends to talk your ear off. Maybe you should try again and see what he will do for you after the fact.

Oh yes, I have a set of Ultegra/OpenPros that I run on my Reynolds 853 steel KHS Flite 800 and I love them!
 

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bigman said:
BTW I've have had problems with alloy nipples on Odds and Endos Speedcific wheels with DT R1.1 rims - alloy nipples used to be on my non drive side of my rear wheel- yanked out during first ride - called Mike Garcia and shockenly no response - had my LBS change the nipples now no issues. Still like the D'ace open pro wheels much better.
I recently sheared off an alloy nipple on my Odds & Endos DTR1.1/Speedcific front wheel too, luckily it was at low speed. I have put almost 2000 miles on them so I wasn't surprised, but if I was to do it again I'd use brass.

On my Odds & Endos set, I also noticed that the bladed spokes weren't all pointed in the same direction. Not sure if that's a sign of bad wheel assembly, but before I sheared off a nipple I haven't had any problems with them.

Also, I agree with blandin - Mike Garcia talked my ears off about wheels, so I'm surprised you didn't get a callback.
 

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I built up a set of Dura Ace/open pros on excel sports, and it came out to 1783 grams. How are you guys getting the wheels so light?
 

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The only thing that would steer me away from Open Pro rims is the infamous "click"...I can't stand it. Anybody know if they adressed this in the current rims being sold?
 

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Expectations

edlouie said:
I have put almost 2000 miles on them so I wasn't surprised, but if I was to do it again I'd use brass.
I guess everyone has different expectations, but for me that is only about 6 weeks of riding. If I had spoke nipples failing every 6 weeks, I would not only be surprised but thoroughly pi$$ed.
 

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Kerry Irons said:
I guess everyone has different expectations, but for me that is only about 6 weeks of riding. If I had spoke nipples failing every 6 weeks, I would not only be surprised but thoroughly pi$$ed.
Well, I didn't expect anything on my wheels to ever fail since they were built by a good builder. In hindsight half of it was my fault since I chose alloy nipples, and our roads are also quite lousy. Trust me, I was still pissed when it happened!

Not to take this off subject, but if you ride about 17,000 miles a year, what wheels/tires are you using / had good experiences with? Curious to know since I'm debating between redoing my current setup with brass, or selling them outright and starting fresh.
 

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DA/OP = 1,800g + ????

lancerracer said:
I built up a set of Dura Ace/open pros on excel sports, and it came out to 1783 grams. How are you guys getting the wheels so light?
I too am confused on a lot of the claimed weights for DA/OP wheels. When ordering at Excel Sports online, they tell you the approximate weight. For 32 hole DA/OP, 14/15 double butted spokes with a mixture of 2X and 3X and alloy nipples, they estimate the weight to be 1,848g.

I've seen a lot of talk on this board about getting DA/OP wheels to approx 1,500g and "lighter than Ksyrium SL's." 348g a pretty big difference, so what's causing this difference? The skewers? Rim tape? Is Excel's summation innacurate?

If someone could provide some insight, that would be great. I'm looking at possibly getting a new set of custom wheels, and I just want to know whats up.
 

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Choices

edlouie said:
Not to take this off subject, but if you ride about 17,000 miles a year, what wheels/tires are you using / had good experiences with? Curious to know since I'm debating between redoing my current setup with brass, or selling them outright and starting fresh.
First off, I would do 2K miles in six weeks in the summer, not year round. I don't typically get out on the road at all in December, January, or February, and not much in November and March. My annual mileage runs around 9,000-9,500 but is pretty dependent on the weather. I ride wheels that I've built myself: Campy Record, 32 hole, DT 15/16 spokes, brass nipples, 3X, with Velocity Aerohead front and Aerohead OC rear. I by tires in bulk and have good luck with Conti GP 3000, and at my 180 lb. I get around 2K miles on a rear tire.
 

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brewster said:
The only thing that would steer me away from Open Pro rims is the infamous "click"...I can't stand it. Anybody know if they adressed this in the current rims being sold?
Can you please elaborate on this? I've never heard of it. I rode Chorous with OP's all last year. They were fine. I like them a lot.
 

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Yes and No

If you have ever handled an OP rim before it is built you are impressed with its lightness and its strength. The only rim that impressed me more, in the same handling procedure, was the Mavic CXP-33. It is stronger than the OP, but still surprisingly light. At your weight, you could do either. I have the 33.

vantongerloo said:
Generally, what I read about this combo is too good to be true. Almost as light as Ksyrium SL's, bombproof, smooth, etc.
I am building up a Merlin Extralight and want a good set of wheels for event days. These are always either Ultra events or mountain climbs like Mt. Mitchell.

I weigh about 200# and am afraid of wheels under 1500g. Any thoughts on why the DA with OP would or wouldn't be a good choice?
 

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howardpowered said:
I too am confused on a lot of the claimed weights for DA/OP wheels. When ordering at Excel Sports online, they tell you the approximate weight. For 32 hole DA/OP, 14/15 double butted spokes with a mixture of 2X and 3X and alloy nipples, they estimate the weight to be 1,848g.

I've seen a lot of talk on this board about getting DA/OP wheels to approx 1,500g and "lighter than Ksyrium SL's." 348g a pretty big difference, so what's causing this difference? The skewers? Rim tape? Is Excel's summation innacurate?

If someone could provide some insight, that would be great. I'm looking at possibly getting a new set of custom wheels, and I just want to know whats up.
Well, you won't get a set of Dura-Ace/Open Pro wheels to weigh 1,500 grams - but you can get them to be lighter than Ksyrium SL's. Firstly, Mavic lies, um I mean, is "optimistic" about the wieghts of their wheels. From the Weight Weenies website, we can see that Ksyrium SL's are about 100 grams heavier than claimed: Weigh Weenies wheel weight listings.

Excel Sport's wheel weight calculator uses the weight of the Dura-Ace hubs with skewers, whereas Mavic weighs their wheels without skewers. Excel lists the weight of Dura-Ace 7800 hubs with skewers as 188g F/ 330 gR. From the Weight Weenies hub weight listings, the weights of Dura-Ace hubs without skewers is 125g F/ 255g R. Taking the difference, the weight of the skewers is 138g/pair.

From the Excel Sports wheel calculator, if you built a set of 28 spoke Dura-Ace/Open Pro wheels with DT Revolution spokes in a 2X pattern in front, DT 2.0/1.8 in 3X pattern on rear drive side and DT Revolution in 2X pattern on rear non-drive side, the total weight would be 1698 grams. Subtracting the skewer weight leaves a wheel weight of 1560 grams - or about 40-60 grams lighter than Ksyrium SLs.

Of course, adding more and/or thicker spokes will add a few more grams of weight, but certainly the Dura-Ace/Open Pro wheels are in the same weight class as Ksyrium SLs.

But of course, wheel performance isn't just about weight - (lateral) rigidity is also important. In this category, Ksyrium SLs have been shown to be fairly flexy in this test: Damon Rinard wheel stiffness test . As can be seen in the test, "traditional" 28 and 32 spoke wheels are stiffer than Ksyriums, so it is likely that the Dura-Ace/Open Pro wheels will be (laterally) stiffer than the Ksyrium SLs.
 
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