Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 21 Posts

·
Banned
Joined
·
169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Some pro's are simply stupid.

Why the hell was Beltran on regular old epo(with animal protein). Dynepo has been around for a while now and it is human identical. You cannot be busted for epo if you use Dynepo.
Dynepo was found in the urine of several riders last year and not just Chicken Man, yet criteria for a positive test for Dynepo are not defined....because it's human identical! If you micro dose IV you CANNOT be busted for Dynepo.
Microdosing daily will also keep retics from spiking too high(like Chicken Man last year) so you can't get a red flag flown in your face for a high retic count.

The perfect formula...Dynepo, HGH and or IGF-1, and ACTH(synthaten)...all undectable....and most are on this combo.

My only guess as to why these men get caught is because perhaps they do not have a team doctor helping them dope..and they do totally on their own without really knowing what they are doing.

RG :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,349 Posts
Realgains said:
Dynepo was found in the urine of several riders last year and not just Chicken Man, yet criteria for a positive test for Dynepo are not defined....because it's human identical! If you micro dose IV you CANNOT be busted for Dynepo.

RG :)
Any chance LNDD is using Dyn test given another in competition EPO pos.?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Cyclo-phile said:
First hand experience, RG? What are your credentials to be throwing around all of this "information" on what works and what doesn't?

:) I am a medical professional. But this isn't rocket science bro. Only the stupid pro's get caught...or the ones that are unlucky enough to have a "whistle blower" screw them ie: Basso, Ullrich etc etc.
I also won all my races clean ....he he he Laughing like Butthead.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGX3Z2wuaE


"Leave me in peace; everyone takes dope" Jacques Anquetil

Now that's a man I can respect. It's not the doping that bugs me, after all, as long as millions are to be made in pro sport dopiing will continue, ...it's the jumping up and down insisting that ones is clean that bugs me.


RG :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
608 Posts
Dynepo might not be safe. It can be detected. Last year the test for it was not certified.

I would not be surprised if Beltran and Duenas were using Dynepo and that the AFLD is now testing for it. That would explain their brazen use of EPO.

Supposedly the AFLD is using the Swiss lab to test for HGH during this year's Tour.

The performance effects of Synacthen are contraversial. Some research has shown no performance enhancement.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Under ACrookedSky said:
Dynepo might not be safe. It can be detected. Last year the test for it was not certified.

I would not be surprised if Beltran and Duenas were using Dynepo and that the AFLD is now testing for it. That would explain their brazen use of EPO.

Supposedly the AFLD is using the Swiss lab to test for HGH during this year's Tour.

The performance effects of Synacthen are contraversial. Some research has shown no performance enhancement.

Dynepo is detectable but it's human identical and thus legally accepted "parameters" cannot be established. But you might be right bro....maybe they have worked something out. These guys have been busted for epo aplha or beta....thinking that they could "get away" with 200 unit IV micro doses done right after morning controls...hoping it would not be detectable by next morning.

Why bother with epo anyway.....when you can blood dope with your own frozen packed cells.


The so called HGH test detects IGF-1....and HGH level directly. IGF-1 is made from the conversion of HGH in the liver. If the riders do not take "large" doses of HGH then they cannot be caught because there IGF-1 stays within the acceptable normal range(but on the high side) and HGH levels are not that high. It only takes 2 iu's a day to get a significant boost in recovery ability from HGH and a significant advantage over the weeks.

I have used Synathacten and it works well bro...not as good as a cortico steroid like Kenacort or plain old cortisone(that Lance liked) but it still works and belive me it is well used in pro cycling.

Cheers

RG :)
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
608 Posts
Realgains said:
These guys have been busted for epo aplha or beta....thinking that they could "get away" with 200 unit IV micro doses done right after morning controls...hoping it would not be detectable by next morning.
If that is the case then it says good things for the dope testing. It would mean the AFLD can not only identify riders that are suspicious but they can also catch them even when they are microdosing.

The obvious question then becomes if the little fish who are doping themselves are being caught then what are the big fish who are using team support on. I want to know what CSC and Suanier Duval are on. Those teams came seriously strapped.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 · (Edited)
Under ACrookedSky said:
If that is the case then it says good things for the dope testing. It would mean the AFLD can not only identify riders that are suspicious but they can also catch them even when they are microdosing.

The obvious question then becomes if the little fish who are doping themselves are being caught then what are the big fish who are using team support on. I want to know what CSC and Suanier Duval are on. Those teams came seriously strapped.

They don't bother with epo at all bro , although they may micro dose Dynepo .They blood dope with their own frozen packed cells. These packes cells can be stored at deep freeze for 10 years! For every unit of packed cells your infuse(about 300 cc) you get a 2-3 point increase in crit!

This is what "Lance" did for years and what Ullrich was busted for and what Basso admitted to in part. "They" coem to morning controls with a 49-50% crit...then it's off the the hotel or motor home to blood dope. I can shove a liter of packed cells into a patient in 30 minutes with a blood pump....and that's at least three untis...and that will riase crit by at least 6%. The "big fish" are racing at 55-60% crit!
Then blood is removed and properly stored at night for safety reasons and so they can pass morning controls....and re-infuse after controls. It's simple but you need to know what you are doing and the riders cannot do this on their own.

Think about this....if they actually could bust you for dynepo use then they would be saying that these riders have been busted for DYN-epo use and not just epo use.

By tours end we will know if Dynepo testing has legally accepted parameters.....but I still think if you micor dose IV with human identical epo you cannot be caught.

RG :)
 

·
Back from the dead
Joined
·
20,800 Posts
That sounds realistic, but how are you going to hide an operation like this? Blood pumps, bags of blood, cold storage, etc. All the authorities have to do is pull over the team bus or motor home, or search the rooms used by the team, and how could you explain what they find? In this climate, it's too risky.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
8 Posts
Interesting topoic for sure.....

I have one question, what about the guys who bonk on the climbs, or who get blown out the back of the group?? Is it because they are at "max capacity" already or what, I mean if "everyone" is on dope, then why do some of these guys have such bad days? Is there a certain level of fitness that needs to be obtained before the dope boost's your level of performance.

Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to ask here.....
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
608 Posts
mohair_chair said:
That sounds realistic, but how are you going to hide an operation like this? Blood pumps, bags of blood, cold storage, etc. All the authorities have to do is pull over the team bus or motor home, or search the rooms used by the team, and how could you explain what they find? In this climate, it's too risky.
The risk has certainly gone up. You no longer want to carry your junk with you in the motor home. Since 1998 riders have used wives and girlfirends and family members to hold their stash. How much risk is there to having a courier transport the blood from Spain, spend an hour in the team's hotel or bus, and then take the remains away? There are rumors that Vino and Kash were transfused when they hopped on their bus early and missed their morning dope controls in the 2006 Vuelta. Unless a team was under surveillance, I don't think the chance of getting caught is very high.

The big problem would seem to be that it would be much harder to do without the help and knowledge of the team's management. With criminalization in France, most management probably does not want to have anything to do with it. They could still remain intentionally blind.

Landis' blood values through the 2006 Tour show that he was likely transfused. Leipheimer and Contador's performance during the second half of the 2007 Tour were very, very suspicious.

Let's see what happens in the Alps this year. I still expect to see Vande Velde blow up, but let's see who miraculously gets stronger in the last week.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
169 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
AKCheesehead said:
Interesting topoic for sure.....

I have one question, what about the guys who bonk on the climbs, or who get blown out the back of the group?? Is it because they are at "max capacity" already or what, I mean if "everyone" is on dope, then why do some of these guys have such bad days? Is there a certain level of fitness that needs to be obtained before the dope boost's your level of performance.

Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to ask here.....

The guys with the highest FTP per kilo before doping usually, but not always, will still be the leaders. However, if you have a starting crit of 40 like me(Armstrong, Pantani and Riis) and then jack to 54-57+% you can get a 20% increase in FTP. So there are times when guys with a lower natural FTP beat up on guys with higher natural FTP

.....if you start at 44-45 you will not get as much boost.....you are lucky to get a 15%. There a few guys that only get a 10% increase but even that is great if you are starting at 380 watts! ...and don't forget the repeatabilty one has while jacked...that's the most impressive change.

RG :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11,561 Posts
jorgy said:
If this is all true & the dope controllers know of this rumor, why wouldn't they set up a sting operation? Seems easy enough.
The dope controllers have no investigative powers, they just run dope tests per the WADA protocol. It would take the police to run a raid as they have done multiple times in Italy over the last several years, and of course the OP bust in Spain. I can't remember them doing anything in France besides reacting after the fact to a doping case. Although I'm not familiar with the circumstances around the Cofidis court case, maybe that was a police investigation?
 

·
Back from the dead
Joined
·
20,800 Posts
Dwayne Barry said:
The dope controllers have no investigative powers, they just run dope tests per the WADA protocol. It would take the police to run a raid as they have done multiple times in Italy over the last several years, and of course the OP bust in Spain. I can't remember them doing anything in France besides reacting after the fact to a doping case. Although I'm not familiar with the circumstances around the Cofidis court case, maybe that was a police investigation?
Aren't they allowed to show up any time for unannounced tests? They don't need investigative powers if they can force a sample at any time. They just need to be smart about choosing the time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,671 Posts
I'd be willing to bet there's substantial police/judicial goings on behind the scenes at the Tour in recent years, including monitoring unusual activity around team buses, motor homes etc. I'd even bet some of the more aggressive journalistic interests have private investigators snooping around, watching people, going through garbage etc. I don't think it's as easy to get away with as some of the posts suggest in terms of not leaving a trail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
84 Posts
Realgains said:
:) I
I also won all my races clean ....he he he Laughing like Butthead.
"Leave me in peace; everyone takes dope" Jacques Anquetil
RG :)
From your previous post

"Anyone that has ever used epo(like myself ) can attest to the fact that the high crit it gives is NUTTY to say the least. Your 5 minute VO2 max repeat power becomes your 60 minute FTP!!!...and your "repeatabilty" goes through the roof."

Any medical professional, and assuming you're not cleaning urinals in a hospital and which seems like a suitable job for you, that promotes drug abuse as a short cut in athletics as you are by supplying "recipes" and personal endorsement to an audience that may include impressionable young athletes, deserves the jail time and marital vowels with "Bubba". Who are you trying to impress outside of observant law enforcement??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,370 Posts
Speaking of law enforcement, I believe that France has changed their stance on sports fraud. Remember, the two riders that have tested positive this year both left with the police, not their wives. Jail time is now a very realistic consequence for them. Up until this year, the consequences weren't judicial, just a sporting suspension and smeared reputation.
 
1 - 20 of 21 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top