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· Fritz
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The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has another press release stating the effectiveness of Electronic Stability Control (ESC) in reducing the insurance industry's payouts. According to the IIHS, "losses under collision coverage are about 15 percent lower for vehicles with ESC than for predecessor models without it."

ESC works by making it harder for vehicles to roll over. Human risk compensation behavior, however, means that people will just drive faster, exposing those who are already most vulnerable to getting smacked by aggressive drivers: cyclists and pedestrians. This is hinted at in the press release: "ESC doesn't have much effect on property damage liability claims or the frequency of injury claims."

The NHTSA is soon expected to make a recommendation to mandate ESC in all new vehicles.

IIHS Press Release: http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr061306.html
 

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I can't make that logic leap with you

cyclelicious said:
The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS) has another press release stating the effectiveness of Electronic Stability Control (ESC) in reducing the insurance industry's payouts. According to the IIHS, "losses under collision coverage are about 15 percent lower for vehicles with ESC than for predecessor models without it."

ESC works by making it harder for vehicles to roll over. Human risk compensation behavior, however, means that people will just drive faster, exposing those who are already most vulnerable to getting smacked by aggressive drivers: cyclists and pedestrians. This is hinted at in the press release: "ESC doesn't have much effect on property damage liability claims or the frequency of injury claims."

The NHTSA is soon expected to make a recommendation to mandate ESC in all new vehicles.

IIHS Press Release: http://www.iihs.org/news/rss/pr061306.html
Are more cyclists getting run over because of Anti-Lock Brakes, Air Bags, Cruise Control, Seat Belts, Automatic Transmission, Uni-body Construction, break away steering colms........etc. I've not heard such claims or studies. Isn't ESC just another technology improvement to the automobile. Tying a correlation between drivers using ESC are more likely to run cyclists over dosn't make any more sense to me than driver's using ABS are more likely to run cyclists over.

Just my thoughts

Scot
 

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Bad for cyclists? How? If you'll pardon the hyperbole, that's effectively splitting hairs on the dead horse after you've finishing giving it a good post-mortem flogging.

The average driver only (barely) knows how to operate a car, and probably will never know/care that a techno-gadget could allow them to drive faster.

Also, on most cars eqipped with some sort of ESC (excluding small market performance cars) are designed to limit rollover and sliding out of control WHILE reducing effective speed at the same time. Simply put, they do not allow extra speed...they apply braking to cure driver error.

For safety reasons, the vast majority of passenger cars and light trucks on the road are designed to understeer (the front pushes) rather than oversteer (think Dukes of Hazzard) in the case of lack of traction. Now, frame this event around a situation where a careless driver meets a cyclist on a bend in the road. Without ESC, the car would likely understeer (plow right into the cyclist) because the front wheels cannot grab enough traction to steer the car. Traction control will scrub off extra speed and transfer weight bias toward the front to help the driver maintain his or her line around the turn. Anyone who has ever driven in icy conditions certainly knows this feeling.

These ESC systems are really nothing more than a logical extension of ABS. Again, in most applications, ESC will not allow you to turn a car any faster than you could while maintaining a tractable speed. I'm not talking about advanced controlled drift techniques or highly agile sports cars...I'm talking about your everyday drone in a sensible mode of transporation.

With the ESC, the cyclist may be saved various sensors and circuitry. Count your blessings.

There are exceptions, of course, but traction control systems are a good thing not only for cyclists who share the road, but for all of us in cars. They're also a pretty good hedge against drivers who are constantly distracted by phones and other things behind the wheel.
 

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cyclelicious said:
As a matter of fact, motorists do driver faster and more aggressively because of seat belts and ABS and other technological improvements. While the safety enhancements are proven and real, the result is a very unfriendly environment for anybody who is outside of the automobile.
I think you have too much time on your hands and worry about too much. I'd say this is about 8th order hair splitting. Completely stupid.
 

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cyclelicious said:
As a matter of fact, motorists do driver faster and more aggressively because of seat belts and ABS and other technological improvements. While the safety enhancements are proven and real, the result is a very unfriendly environment for anybody who is outside of the automobile.
Ok, but what I was saying was there a correlation between the drivers that ran down a cyclist (or pedestrian) and the vehicle being equipped a particuliar saftey device....ever.

For Example: In 1996 (or whatever year it was) when roughly 50% of the cars on the road had ABS and 50% didn't. Were 75% of car bike/ped accidents by cars with ABS. I don't re-call that ever being a factor, so I don't think it will be any different for this new ABS.

Scot
 

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Using this same logic, cyclists would be safer if all cars had 4 wheel drum brakes.
 

· n00bsauce
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Safer still

MR_GRUMPY said:
Using this same logic, cyclists would be safer if all cars had 4 wheel drum brakes.
We'd really be safer if all cars were like Fred Flintstone's.
 

· n00bsauce
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Pure conjecture.
 

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alienator said:
I think you have too much time on your hands and worry about too much. I'd say this is about 8th order hair splitting. Completely stupid.
I hate to say this, and it doesn't happen often... but I agree with alienator. :mad2:

There I said it, I am going to take a shower now....:(
 

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Since the alternative is teaching people to drive...

...and politicians are never going to do that because we think everybody has a RIGHT to drive, maybe ESC is a partial answer. I've been agitating for years, with absolutely no result at all, for driving tests that are MUCH more difficult than the current ones. At least in Nevada, the licensing exam is almost completely useless. If you can aim the car down the road and recognize a stop sign, you pass. We have snow and ice here four or five months a year, but there's no consideration of skid control, emergency braking, anything.
And there's no limit. My next door neighbor is 92, frail, terrified to go over 35mph. I saw her recently pull down a freeway onramp at about 20 and stop dead in the slow lane while she looked back to make sure it was safe to putter away. But she just renewed her license for four more years.
 

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Cyclelicious,

How come the death rates for pedestrians and cyclists have been dropping?
The bicycle injury death rate among children ages 14 and under declined 69 percent from 1987 to 2001.

The pedestrian injury death rate among children ages 14 and under declined 55 percent from 1987 to 2001.
souce: The National SAFE KIDS Campaign
 

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I agree with the OP about safety devices allowing motorists to drive faster. OTOH, as others state, there is little correlation to increased cycling accidents.

Technology in vehicles allows for higher speeds and greater safety for the driver and passengers. Many drivers take advantage of this by driving more aggressively and at higher speeds. I believe this because I'm one of them.

When I started driving, it was unsafe to drive at the speeds that I consider normal now.
 

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The characteristics of the automobile are far, far less important than the characteristics of the driver. The best way to make cyclists safe would be to make driving such a boring experience that people actually paid attention to the road. Let's legislate to get rid of cell phones, radios, screaming children, drinks, food and other distractions in the car.
Yeah, right.
 
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