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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am planning to get the Enve SES 2.2, 3.4 or 4.5 (tubular 700x25c tires) CK R45 hubs but I have a concern whether there would be any fitment problem with my Trek Domane with Dura Ace 9000 caliper brakes. Is there any rider out there who is using this combination without any rubbing issues? Thanks for the inputs!
 

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Should not be they are no wider than Aeolus options which I have been running for years with 25s



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I am planning to get the Enve SES 2.2, 3.4 or 4.5 (tubular 700x25c tires) CK R45 hubs but I have a concern whether there would be any fitment problem with my Trek Domane with Dura Ace 9000 caliper brakes. Is there any rider out there who is using this combination without any rubbing issues? Thanks for the inputs!
They'll fit fine. Whether or not they rub depends on a variety of factors, mostly, your weight and how close you have your pads set to the rim. If you're a bigger guy and/or like really tight clearances you can have them built with a bit beefier spoke for more stiffness.
 

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Cpark
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I am planning to get the Enve SES 2.2, 3.4 or 4.5 (tubular 700x25c tires) CK R45 hubs but I have a concern whether there would be any fitment problem with my Trek Domane with Dura Ace 9000 caliper brakes. Is there any rider out there who is using this combination without any rubbing issues? Thanks for the inputs!
FYI, 2.2 might be bit whippy unless you are a 140lbs rider.
I own 45, 3.4, 4.5 and 6.7, and they are all nice wheel sets.
I recently purchased a set of 2.2 and had to return it, because it rubbed the break pad too much.
 

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Of course they will fit. The Domane has the most clearance of any of Treks road bikes. Tubulars on a Domane seems kind of weird though. Not trying to give you a hard time, but why would you be trying to decide between those three rims? They are all vastly different and for vastly different things.
 

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I have 4.5s on my 6 series frame with 25mm Conti 4000S tires and Ultegra brakes and there's plenty of room. Dura Ace won't be any different
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Guys, thanks for the invaluable inputs!

@ cpark. I read quite a few Enve 2.2 reviews where brake rub is an issue with the rear wheel. It looks like the rear wheel stiffness is too low. I will skip the 2.2 for now

@ghettocop. I plan on using the 2.2 for climbing, and the 3.4 or 4.5 for everyday use. I prefer tubulars as they are lighter and for other reasons.

@Srode. Thanks a lot for the direct confirmation of the 4.5 compatibility in the Domane! Are you using tubulars or clinchers for the 4.5?
 

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Mine are clinchers, but the rim is the same width either way you go. A snapshot for you of mine after RAIN (ride across Indiana) yesterday.
 

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Cpark
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Guys, thanks for the invaluable inputs!

@ cpark. I read quite a few Enve 2.2 reviews where brake rub is an issue with the rear wheel. It looks like the rear wheel stiffness is too low. I will skip the 2.2 for now

@ghettocop. I plan on using the 2.2 for climbing, and the 3.4 or 4.5 for everyday use. I prefer tubulars as they are lighter and for other reasons.

@Srode. Thanks a lot for the direct confirmation of the 4.5 compatibility in the Domane! Are you using tubulars or clinchers for the 4.5?

I think Enve needs to offer 2.2 wth 24/28 spoke pattern, and that should solve the issue.
Or maybe they should offer 2.3 and may take care of the problem.
I really liked how they look and felt when I rode seated.
As soon as I stood and rock the bike side to side, it rubbed like hell.
I had the shop replace the front spokes and non DS side of the rear wheel to Sapim Sprint from Cx-Rays and DS with Race spokes.
It made the front wheel much better but the rear wheel still rubbed quite a bit.
So I ended up returning the for 3.4
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 · (Edited)
@ Srode. How do you find the stability of the 4.5 front wheel in cross winds? How do you find the aero performance?

@ cpark. It just puzzles me how the design team at Enve overlooked the stiffness issue in the rear wheel. I hope that they will revise the design soon. The 2.2 was released in 2015 I believe. BTW, you have the 3.4, 4.5 and 6.7. What type of riding conditions do you use each of them for, and what are your specific experiences with them? Thanks for sharing.
 

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@ Srode. How do you find the stability of the 4.5 front wheel in cross winds? How do you find the aero performance?
I'm happy with their performance both aero and cross wind. I'm about 185lbs. On the 160 mile ride across Indiana we had a wind out of the North gusting at times, the wheels felt fine, no issues. They feel more responsive to steering input than the Belgium C2s I had previously, faster to respond, less input required which was a surprise to me.

Haven't had a chance to do any real analysis comparing these to my previous wheels for performance, but from the bit of reading I have seen on line comparing different ENVE wheels the 4.5 is probably the sweet spot in their line up for aero vs weight, and unless it's a double digit grade, aero advantage of the 4.5 should trump the weight advantage of any shallow section light wheel I would consider at my weight from everything I have read.
 

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wheelbuilder
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@ cpark. It just puzzles me how the design team at Enve overlooked the stiffness issue in the rear wheel.
Problem isn't the rim, it's the build. They are usually built to DT 240 so they aren't laterally stiff. It's compounded with using all CX-Rays with the build.

Last build I sent out was with Tune hubs (laterally stiffer design) and I used CX-Sprint spokes (heavier gauge, bladed spoke) for the right side. They aren't whippy.

Best part is they weigh less than their stock builds at 1065g.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Problem isn't the rim, it's the build. They are usually built to DT 240 so they aren't laterally stiff. It's compounded with using all CX-Rays with the build.

Last build I sent out was with Tune hubs (laterally stiffer design) and I used CX-Sprint spokes (heavier gauge, bladed spoke) for the right side. They aren't whippy.

Best part is they weigh less than their stock builds at 1065g.
@ ergott. Interesting. Could you post some photos of this build? Which Tune hub did you use? How would you compare the Enve carbon hub and the Tune hub in terms of stiffness? Did you use the CX sprint spokes on the drive side and the CX ray on the non-drive side? Which frame was this tested on? Thanks for sharing.
 

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Bike is Ax Lightness VIAL evo D. The problem with the Enve carbon hub is it uses the same flange geometry as the DT it shares internals with. The flanges aren't as far from the centerline of the hub as the Tune flanges are (or many other hubs for that matter). I used CX-Rays for the left spokes to compliment the CX-Sprints on the right.

Bike is 12.5lbs!


 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The flanges aren't as far from the centerline of the hub as the Tune flanges are (or many other hubs for that matter).
Is the distance from the centerline really that different between the Enve and Tube hubs? Just a cursory look at both don't seem to be much different.
 

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Millimeters are a lot when talking flange geometry.

Enve wheels built with DT hubs have been tested more than once for lateral stiffness and have come up short. It's not the rim that isn't stiff.
 

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Cpark
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@ Srode. How do you find the stability of the 4.5 front wheel in cross winds? How do you find the aero performance?

@ cpark. It just puzzles me how the design team at Enve overlooked the stiffness issue in the rear wheel. I hope that they will revise the design soon. The 2.2 was released in 2015 I believe. BTW, you have the 3.4, 4.5 and 6.7. What type of riding conditions do you use each of them for, and what are your specific experiences with them? Thanks for sharing.

Most of the rides I do are on the rolling hills near the foot of the Blue Ridge Mountain in Virginia.

The first one I got was the Edge 45 several years ago (laced with CX-Rays on Alchemy ELF/ORC hubs). By far this is the most stout wheel set I own, and I think it's due to the very wide hub flange width of the Alchemy hubs.
However, this set is also the most affected by cross wind, even more so than the Enve 6.7.
Interestingly, this is also the lightest set I own (1,321 grams) due to it was made prior to beefing up the brake track to prevent the delamination of the sidewall under heavy braking.
It only has about 300 miles on them, but it has developed a serious pulsing.
Enve asked me to ship it back to them for inspection, so I shipped it out about two weeks ago.

Then I got a set of 6.7 laced with CX-Ray on Tune hubs (1,519 grams) about a year ago.
These felt great especially at high speed, and I have put on about 300 miles on them.
One annoying thing is this is the loudest set I own due to the Tune hubs/tall rims that amplifies the noise even more.

Then I got a set of 4.5 laced with CX-Rays on Tune hubs (1,445 grams) earlier this year.
These almost felt like 6.7 except less cross wind affect.
It also felt little stiffer laterally and accelerate quicker but that could be just my head.

Then I got a set of 2.2 on Tune hubs (1,321 grams) which was way too flexible, and ended up returning for a set of 3.4.

I got the 3.4 laced with Sapim Sprint spokes on the front and DS of the rear with CX-Ray on NDS (1,466 grams).
This wheelset felt somewhat close to 4.5 but felt lighter and not as stiffer.
Interestingly, this set weighs slightly more than 4.5 due to thicker/heavier spokes.

I thought the 3.4 set was the best all around set due to very minimal cross wind affect, yet still pretty aero and it provides just enough flex for most comfortable ride.

The 3.4 set has the updated textured brake track, and 4.5 and 6.7 don't, so I can't swap them without changing the brake pads.
 

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Cpark
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Problem isn't the rim, it's the build. They are usually built to DT 240 so they aren't laterally stiff. It's compounded with using all CX-Rays with the build.

Last build I sent out was with Tune hubs (laterally stiffer design) and I used CX-Sprint spokes (heavier gauge, bladed spoke) for the right side. They aren't whippy.

Best part is they weigh less than their stock builds at 1065g.

My 2.2 was rebuilt with Sprint and Race spokes on Tune hubs, and it still rubbed quite a bit.
If Enve offers the replacement of my Edge 45 rims with any rims, I might give it a shot one more time, and get it laced on Alchemy ELF/ORC hubs.
 

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Close up of the brake track at 2200 miles, I can't tell any wear so far but I wouldn't expect to this new either really.
 

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My 2.2 was rebuilt with Sprint and Race spokes on Tune hubs, and it still rubbed quite a bit.
If Enve offers the replacement of my Edge 45 rims with any rims, I might give it a shot one more time, and get it laced on Alchemy ELF/ORC hubs.
my 2.2 are DT240... was thinking of going extralite SP which I have on my 4.5s.. and I did the same with CXrays and the stiffer spokes on the drive side for the rear. I can make them rub on occasion. If I ever decide to redo my 2.2 rear I might try Alchemy as well, the DT240 front is fine.

Can you still get Alchemy's ?
 
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