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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
After reading through several of these threads, what is everyone's problem with Lance? I mean, he's an American, was riding for an American team, overcame death, won the Tour record, and is a great role model for our country. And how can you say he tested positive for the whole L'Equipe thing? I mean how suspicious and awkward was that whole thing? Personally, I like Lance a lot because he is a great cyclist, inspiration, and American. Why do some people in this forum hate his guts?
 

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vivelance6 said:
and is a great role model for our country.
A guy who survives cancer, dopes to win the Tour, and then uses his former medical status in a PR campaign to inflate his ego does not qualify as a great role model in my book. I find it disgusting.

I can understand doping to win and make money. But going beyond that to use tainted victories to personally profit from a serious medical problem that destroys people's lives goes beyond the pale. It is a betrayal of the people he is ostensibly championing.

Tyler Hamilton latching on to the M.S. charities was almost as bad.
 

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Pardon

Under ACrookedSky said:
A guy who survives cancer, dopes to win the Tour, and then uses his former medical status in a PR campaign to inflate his ego does not qualify as a great role model in my book. I find it disgusting.

I can understand doping to win and make money. But going beyond that to use tainted victories to personally profit from a serious medical problem that destroys people's lives goes beyond the pale. It is a betrayal of the people he is ostensibly championing.

Tyler Hamilton latching on to the M.S. charities was almost as bad.
A couple of quick questions mate. How many ppl did you bring to cycling? 0, maybe 1. Lance, oh, you know, a couple of hundred thousand. How many times did u survive cancer? Im guessing zilch, lance one. How many times did u win the Tour? again, im guessing 0, lance, i think it was seven, let me know if im wrong.

The fact that you have time to come on a forum and bag someone you dont even know because you dont like him is bs. If you dont like the guy, stop writing about him, even better, stop cycling, at least we wont have to hear from you again.

This site is about helping ppl out and giving advice, talking about the pro's and whos winning what, what teams are riding and where teams are traing. Last time i checked, the title to this forum wasn't "Lets Bag Lance", it was pro cycling!

Get off your ass and figure out that this guy has brought millions of dollars into this sport and we *sarcasm* as cyclists benefit from that every time we hit the road.

Oh by the way,
 

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vivelance6 said:
After reading through several of these threads, what is everyone's problem with Lance?
Basically, Lance has a very different image among the general American public than he does to people who follow pro cycling. To most people, Lance is a cross between a superhero and a saint. He's a nice guy who cheated death and miraculously, through the power of hope and faith and love, came back to become the best cyclist in the world. Those who follow pro cycling, however, realize that Lance is a much more complex character. Sure, he's an incredible talent, but he's also foulmouthed, aggressive, cocky, and basically kind of a jerk. There's no denying that he's a great champion, and he's done some amazing work with his cancer foundation, but he isn't the "nice guy hero" he's often made out to be. The book "Lance Armstrong's War" does a great job of laying out the two different Lances that exist in people's minds.

BTW, I started cycling because I was inspired by Lance Armstrong, but I see him much differently now.

Cheers,
Ari
 

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It's not Personal

vivelance6 said:
After reading through several of these threads, what is everyone's problem with Lance? I mean, he's an American, was riding for an American team, overcame death, won the Tour record, and is a great role model for our country. And how can you say he tested positive for the whole L'Equipe thing? I mean how suspicious and awkward was that whole thing? Personally, I like Lance a lot because he is a great cyclist, inspiration, and American. Why do some people in this forum hate his guts?
I applaud his work for cancer.
He was an interesting rider pre-cancer, and I followed his career keenly in Cyclesport.

But, post cancer, his season shrank to one race to the excluson of all others. That disappointed me, as did the way he was in every single issue of Cyclesport & Procycling. The season starts in February, but LA wasn't seen until late March and he wasn't riding to win until late June. Come October he'd already been "on the beach" for nearly 3 months! Add to that the rather ambiguous stance he has displayed toward doping, in particular his attitude to Christophe Bassons, and I have a hard time liking the cyclist Lance Armstrong.

So, I'm relieved that he has retired. I was excited by the prospect of a LA classics campaign in 2005, but he changed his mind at the last moment. Either that or it was an attempt to f*** with his rivals heads and their season plans to boot.

He was good for the sport, both in the US and in the english-speaking world outside of cycling. But within cycling he is not the great Patron he seemed to feel he was. He wasn't a Merckx or an Hinault. He couldn't be, not because they raced under different circumstances, but because he didn't consider any race outside the Tour to be worthy of his attention. The expression "quality not quantity" comes to mind. Merckx, in particular, and Hinault had both. Armstrong has only quantity. He never won a monument, never even tried the GIro, that's what disappoints me. He had so much potential, but seems to have chosen to target one race only. It was the same year in year out.

Now that he's gone, I look forward to a more balanced season and a Tour with an exciting fight for the jersey. Hopefully we'll have a winner who has raced a fuller season. Who knows, even a Tour/Giro double?
 

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No doubt...

ultimobici said:
I applaud his work for cancer.
He was an interesting rider pre-cancer, and I followed his career keenly in Cyclesport.

But, post cancer, his season shrank to one race to the excluson of all others. That disappointed me, as did the way he was in every single issue of Cyclesport & Procycling. The season starts in February, but LA wasn't seen until late March and he wasn't riding to win until late June. Come October he'd already been "on the beach" for nearly 3 months! Add to that the rather ambiguous stance he has displayed toward doping, in particular his attitude to Christophe Bassons, and I have a hard time liking the cyclist Lance Armstrong.

So, I'm relieved that he has retired. I was excited by the prospect of a LA classics campaign in 2005, but he changed his mind at the last moment. Either that or it was an attempt to f*** with his rivals heads and their season plans to boot.

He was good for the sport, both in the US and in the english-speaking world outside of cycling. But within cycling he is not the great Patron he seemed to feel he was. He wasn't a Merckx or an Hinault. He couldn't be, not because they raced under different circumstances, but because he didn't consider any race outside the Tour to be worthy of his attention. The expression "quality not quantity" comes to mind. Merckx, in particular, and Hinault had both. Armstrong has only quantity. He never won a monument, never even tried the GIro, that's what disappoints me. He had so much potential, but seems to have chosen to target one race only. It was the same year in year out.

Now that he's gone, I look forward to a more balanced season and a Tour with an exciting fight for the jersey. Hopefully we'll have a winner who has raced a fuller season. Who knows, even a Tour/Giro double?
There is no doubt that he was good for the sport in America during his reign of Tour de France wins, and as I have said before, and will continue to say, his winning of the Tour in such a dominating fashion for 6 of the 7 years isn't a problem. I don't personally care if he wins just one race all year, and doesn't race much before or after that. I think that it takes balls to say, "I'm coming out to the le Tour again this year. Stop me if you can." And to his sponsor it was what was important, to win le Tour. I ask the original poster to tell me about all of the other wins that Postal/Disco had in the years from 1999-2005, but I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't be able to tell me about many other people on the team let alone the wins by other members of the team. There are a lot of Americans, well, not a ton, but more than there used to be, riding on teams in Europe now, and there are a lot of Americans who are riding great. Julich has been resurrected, Zabriskie held onto the yellow jersey for a short while, Landis, Leipheimer, Horner, and others, and guess what? They don't ride for America teams. Just because Lance rode for America team doesn't make it an American team. He's an American on a cycling team, which is international in flavor, which is, if you want a very good team, is how it should be. Most teams have a wide and varied cross of international talent on them.

Lance the person is another story. While I highly respect his accomplishments on the bike (1 world championship, 7 tours, Fleche Wallone, and many other smaller stage race victories), him off the bike, not such a nice guy. Sure, he's done some great work in cancer research and getting monies for that, and I have to disagree with the person who said he's made money off of that, I don't believe that he has. The LAF does great work, but Lance is a prickly fellow, even to his friends. Hell, according to him, his best friend College and himself didn't speak for several years because they had a small misunderstanding. The man is not a saint, never has been, never claimed to be, and never will be. Has he done great things on and off the bike? Indeed, he has.

Over the next couple of years you're going to see a general decline in the number of people riding bikes because, the Lance effect is going to wear out, that is, unless we can get another American to win le Tour. Because for most, this is the only race Americans know, and or care to pay attention to. You tell someone about Paris-Roubaix, their first question is what is that? We saw that same general disinterest in cycling when Lemond retired, and the same is going to happen now. Ebb and flow. Ebb and flow.

We, for the most part, don't hate Armstrong I don't think, but we are tired of hearing how beatified he gets from people who don't really know too much about cycling in general. That's my main sticking point really. I'm more than willing to bet that most people still didn't know too much about him before 2002 anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Lance got me into cycling and tons of others, as many said. Postal/Discovery has had many other great wins 1999-2005: a Giro, 2 Vueltas, a few Dauphines (including Tylers), several small one day races, close call in major classics (2nd, 4th P-R), Best young rider in the tour, and many others. Yes, I do know of other victories Postal/Disco have had. I think Lance is great for the sport and I continue to support him now that he is retired. Show me the official proof that LA doped. The L'Equipe thing is a bunch of BS...who knows what the French put in that stuff. I support Lance because he got me and tons of others into the great sport, represents our country well, and is a fighter in all aspects, never giving up.
 

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vivelance6 said:
Lance got me into cycling and tons of others, as many said. Postal/Discovery has had many other great wins 1999-2005: a Giro, 2 Vueltas, a few Dauphines (including Tylers), several small one day races, close call in major classics (2nd, 4th P-R), Best young rider in the tour, and many others. Yes, I do know of other victories Postal/Disco have had. I think Lance is great for the sport and I continue to support him now that he is retired. Show me the official proof that LA doped. The L'Equipe thing is a bunch of BS...who knows what the French put in that stuff. I support Lance because he got me and tons of others into the great sport, represents our country well, and is a fighter in all aspects, never giving up.
I don't think LA has been great for the sport, he turned the TdF into the most boring cycling event on the calendar. Sure, that's great if you're american and all you know about is the Tour and all you care about is winning. And sure enough his history of battling cancer is a compelling one, but when it comes down to sports, who gives a sh!t about that. On the bike he won, boringly and off the bike he's a sociopath a$$hat. Now can we move on? I hear there's an interesting debate going on in Wheels & Tires.
 

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vivelance6 said:
Show me the official proof that LA doped. The L'Equipe thing is a bunch of BS...who knows what the French put in that stuff.
Go to the doping forum to find out why the french conspiracy argument holds no water.

Six positives for EPO. They got him.

And to Bryn, who is upset that Armstrong is being discussed here, there have been calls to have a separate forum for Armstrong fan worship. It would be a big relief. We would not get the moderators moving crap threads about Armstrong breaking up with Sheryl Crow into the ProCycling forum, and you and Vivelance could hang out in the Lance Man Love forum and fight over who will get his affections.
 

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Oh that hurts

Under ACrookedSky said:
Go to the doping forum to find out why the french conspiracy argument holds no water.

Six positives for EPO. They got him.

And to Bryn, who is upset that Armstrong is being discussed here, there have been calls to have a separate forum for Armstrong fan worship. It would be a big relief. We would not get the moderators moving crap threads about Armstrong breaking up with Sheryl Crow into the ProCycling forum, and you and Vivelance could hang out in the Lance Man Love forum and fight over who will get his affections.
Six positives for EPO? I'd think most ppl who can operate a computer would know how to count, but every day i get a suprise.

The fact that you hate lance so much is fine by me. The fact is that you look at all the threads about him and have to comment on him is well, wierd, almost obsessive, or maybe you just cant read either, do you have one of those japanese keyboards, that may explain it!

Id like to see a lance forum, it would keep your posts away from mine and make the pro cycling forum, well about pro cycling!

Have a nice day!
 

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I think it is mostly backlash from over hype and over exposure - just like the Trek bashing that goes on. I know I've been affected by it.

I don't think any of the above responders know anything about living through cancer treatment though. As a cancer patient currently in remission I have a lot of respect for what Lance has done.
 

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Bryn said:
Id like to see a lance forum, it would keep your posts away from mine and make the pro cycling forum, well about pro cycling!
Seeing as how your contributions to the ProCycling forum consists mostly of posting to threads about Armstrong coming out of retirement and what is on the top tube of his bike (now that is weird), I don't think you'll be around here much if an Armstrong forum was created.
 

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Under ACrookedSky said:
A guy who survives cancer, dopes to win the Tour, and then uses his former medical status in a PR campaign to inflate his ego does not qualify as a great role model in my book. I find it disgusting.

I can understand doping to win and make money. But going beyond that to use tainted victories to personally profit from a serious medical problem that destroys people's lives goes beyond the pale. It is a betrayal of the people he is ostensibly championing.

Tyler Hamilton latching on to the M.S. charities was almost as bad.
"WHO cares?"


Go ride your bike more-

-unless you're racing against him(i.e. Armstrong/Hamilton/&etc.) I don't see how it really matters that much to your own riding.
 

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Ok then

Under ACrookedSky said:
Seeing as how your contributions to the ProCycling forum consists mostly of posting to threads about Armstrong coming out of retirement and what is on the top tube of his bike (now that is weird), I don't think you'll be around here much if an Armstrong forum was created.
Your cool matey! You went and looked at my profile bcos i was insulting you, poor you! Don't reply to my post, ur wierd and obsessive!

Oh yeah, to 'Koop', congratulations, all the best for the future and to 'Room 1201' i agree, who cares!
 

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Lance..

Bryn said:
Six positives for EPO? I'd think most ppl who can operate a computer would know how to count, but every day i get a suprise.

The fact that you hate lance so much is fine by me. The fact is that you look at all the threads about him and have to comment on him is well, wierd, almost obsessive, or maybe you just cant read either, do you have one of those japanese keyboards, that may explain it!

Id like to see a lance forum, it would keep your posts away from mine and make the pro cycling forum, well about pro cycling!

Have a nice day!
Lance is no longer a pro cyclist, so maybe we could take the lance fan threads (just saw him in Kentucky, just saw him ride by in california, did you see him at the dicso presentation, is he still riding, are he and Sheryl still together, and so on) over to "retro"?

Funny how most of you guys who are self professed Lance fans have not much else to say about pro cycling the rest of the year when the Tour is not going on, and now that Lance isn't riding, I'm sure that this forum will be vacant during Tour time.

Now how about 'cross world championships this weekend, that was some compelling racing.
 

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magnolialover said:
Lance is no longer a pro cyclist, so maybe we could take the lance fan threads (just saw him in Kentucky, just saw him ride by in california, did you see him at the dicso presentation, is he still riding, are he and Sheryl still together, and so on) over to "retro"?

Funny how most of you guys who are self professed Lance fans have not much else to say about pro cycling the rest of the year when the Tour is not going on, and now that Lance isn't riding, I'm sure that this forum will be vacant during Tour time.

Now how about 'cross world championships this weekend, that was some compelling racing.
Now how about 'cross world championships this weekend, that was some compelling racing
Wrong section. I think there already is a cross section. What is cross? Isn't this "roadbikereview"?
 

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magnolialover said:
Lance is no longer a pro cyclist, so maybe we could take the lance fan threads (just saw him in Kentucky, just saw him ride by in california, did you see him at the dicso presentation, is he still riding, are he and Sheryl still together, and so on) over to "retro"?

Funny how most of you guys who are self professed Lance fans have not much else to say about pro cycling the rest of the year when the Tour is not going on, and now that Lance isn't riding, I'm sure that this forum will be vacant during Tour time.

Now how about 'cross world championships this weekend, that was some compelling racing.
Ive never started any lance threads, oh and the reason i dont comment on pro cycling as much as you'd like me too is because they don't really telecast it over here in AUS as much as id like, if i do find something worth starting a new thread over, odds are its already been posted.

And true, i think this is called RoadBikeReview, ur lucky their even is a cross section. Cross, pfft! Get off your ass and go learn to ride a real bike instead of sitting at a computer and been such a prick!
 
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