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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So do folks think McLaren is going to get kicked out of the championship?

How stupid to lie with all the corroborating evidence around.
 

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Lemur-ing
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I don't follow what you're saying actually.

Any links to the article etc?
 

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I'd be shocked to see them get kicked out of the championship. The FIA does seem to have something against McLaren lately. Amazing the hole their in this year. The bigger they are, the harder they fall.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
So do folks think McLaren is going to get kicked out of the championship?

How stupid to lie with all the corroborating evidence around.
I'm not a McLaren fan, but I don't think they should be removed from the championship or penalized in any way over the previously imposed exclusion of Hamilton from the results. That penalty was sufficient and in direct proportion to the offense.

Their actions were stupid in view of all the evidence, but I believe far worse offenses have occured in the past that did not result in exclusion from the championship and therefore McL should be treated similarly to past transgressors.

All that aside, I certainly have no respect to the way LH handled the entire situation. He completely shifted all blame to Ryan and the team. He singled out a 30+ year McL employee as the being completely at fault while accepting virtually no blame himself. LH's press conference on the matter was I think sad and a poor reflection on him.
 

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Spicy Dumpling
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Interesting story, I didn't know anything about it until you mentioned it. I'd say that they shouldn't be excluded but they should be penalized more than a few points.

It's an interesting season, what will happen if Brawn et al are penalized for the diffuser after the appeal? And by putting in the appeal, the other teams can't really use the modified diffusers can they?

I think I need to get back into F1 after dropping out for a few years. It looks like a really nice soap opera with the silliest and most confusing rules in the sporting world.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
SteveCnj said:
All that aside, I certainly have no respect to the way LH handled the entire situation. He completely shifted all blame to Ryan and the team. He singled out a 30+ year McL employee as the being completely at fault while accepting virtually no blame himself. LH's press conference on the matter was I think sad and a poor reflection on him.
I can't think of another time I've seen a person so thoroughly and completely thrown under the bus. I'm sure it wasn't Hamilton's decision but a team decision that Ryan would take the fall, and it fell on Hamilton to do the dagger work.
 

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VaughnA said:
Interesting story, I didn't know anything about it until you mentioned it. I'd say that they shouldn't be excluded but they should be penalized more than a few points.

It's an interesting season, what will happen if Brawn et al are penalized for the diffuser after the appeal? And by putting in the appeal, the other teams can't really use the modified diffusers can they?

I think I need to get back into F1 after dropping out for a few years. It looks like a really nice soap opera with the silliest and most confusing rules in the sporting world.
If the diffuser is ruled illegal, I don't think there will be any retroactive penalty to Brawn. They will simply be prevented from using it going forward. I believe this is what happened in both the mass damper protest and the protest concerning the Michelin tire width issue.

I think that Ferrari and McL are both spending tons of CFD and wind tunnel time right now developing their own modified diffuser to use in the event that the Brawn interpretation is ruled legal.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I can't think of another time I've seen a person so thoroughly and completely thrown under the bus. I'm sure it wasn't Hamilton's decision but a team decision that Ryan would take the fall, and it fell on Hamilton to do the dagger work.
Maybe it was a team decision, but I don't think that McL instructed LH to discredit Ryan the way he did. If LH had any integrity he should have refused to critize Ryan, spoke only of his own involvement and referred any questions about Ryan to Ron Dennis or Whitmarsh.
 

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Lemur-ing
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Waaaaaiiiiitttttt a minute...

What the hell are we talking about here? The diffuser? I'm sure other teams have done something to push the limit with regards to that as well now right?

Full story or good summary anyone? Thanks.
 

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uzziefly said:
Waaaaaiiiiitttttt a minute...

What the hell are we talking about here? The diffuser? I'm sure other teams have done something to push the limit with regards to that as well now right?

Full story or good summary anyone? Thanks.
I haven't got all the details but while we are waiting on the diffuser appeal how could the complainers such as ferrari and mclaren use a 'questionable' diffuser and still be filing the appeal? So in the meantime they are in a bit of a pickle.

Overall I'm loving it. It's nice to see the little guys outsmart the bullies.
 

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VaughnA said:
I haven't got all the details but while we are waiting on the diffuser appeal how could the complainers such as ferrari and mclaren use a 'questionable' diffuser and still be filing the appeal? So in the meantime they are in a bit of a pickle.

Overall I'm loving it. It's nice to see the little guys outsmart the bullies.
The protesting teams, (i don't think McL is one of them) are not using the questionable diffuser at this time, although I would think they are developing one in the event that it is ruled legal.

To Uzzie:

The other issue being discussed is McL and LH's potential penalty for lying to the stewards at the Aus GP regarding Hamilton's pass of Trulli under yellow and the subsequent repass of Hamilton by Trulli. Check out Autosport.com or F1.com.
 

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Lemur-ing
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SteveCnj said:
To Uzzie:

The other issue being discussed is McL and LH's potential penalty for lying to the stewards at the Aus GP regarding Hamilton's pass of Trulli under yellow and the subsequent repass of Hamilton by Trulli. Check out Autosport.com or F1.com.
That issue that led him to being disqualified?

Wasn't that settled?

Sure, it wasn't a good thing but I thought things have moved on by now. :idea:
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
uzziefly said:
Waaaaaiiiiitttttt a minute...

What the hell are we talking about here? The diffuser? I'm sure other teams have done something to push the limit with regards to that as well now right?

Full story or good summary anyone? Thanks.
Cars were behind the SC, and Trulli went off track from P3, which allowed Hamilton to take the spot, Trulli returned in P4. However, McLaren was unsure if this was legal or not since you can't pass behind the SC under normal circumstances (but turns out you can pass if the car in front of you has trouble). So, Hamilton discussed with engineers what to do and they pulled over and slowed so Trulli thinking Hamilton had a problem retook P3. Apparently this happened away from TV camera, so the stewards thought Trulli had simply took his position back against the rules and they docked him some time, taking him out of the points.

They called Hamilton in after the race and then again later and asked if he had discussed giving the position back or had given it back and he lied, or at least didn't tell the truth, making it appear that Trulli had simply taken the position and deserved the time penalty.

But of course the radio conversation is recorded so they can be heard discussing the situation and there was fan video showing Hamilton pull over and slow to let Trulli by.
 

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Lemur-ing
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Dwayne Barry said:
Cars were behind the SC, and Trulli went off track from P3, which allowed Hamilton to take the spot, Trulli returned in P4. However, McLaren was unsure if this was legal or not since you can't pass behind the SC under normal circumstances (but turns out you can pass if the car in front of you has trouble). So, Hamilton discussed with engineers what to do and they pulled over and slowed so Trulli thinking Hamilton had a problem retook P3. Apparently this happened away from TV camera, so the stewards thought Trulli had simply took his position back against the rules and they docked him some time, taking him out of the points.

They called Hamilton in after the race and then again later and asked if he had discussed giving the position back or had given it back and he lied, or at least didn't tell the truth, making it appear that Trulli had simply taken the position and deserved the time penalty.

But of course the radio conversation is recorded so they can be heard discussing the situation and there was fan video showing Hamilton pull over and slow to let Trulli by.
Disqualified for THAT? IMO, nope, they shouldn't be punished any further.

I mean, Hamilton's points got docked. They can punish him/the team by relegating them further down the grid for a couple more races but any more than that, I feel it's excessive IMO.

They seem to be targeting McLaren a fair bit since last year or so IMO as well. While those things might seem acceptable (what the stewards and regulations did that is), some aren't and are rather excessive too.
 

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Hard to blame a young driver...

SteveCnj said:
I'm not a McLaren fan, but I don't think they should be removed from the championship or penalized in any way ...
All that aside, I certainly have no respect to the way LH handled the entire situation. He completely shifted all blame to Ryan and the team. .
Hard to blame Lewis for this, I think. If the transcripts I've seen are accurate (hard to be sure with the skimpy U.S. Formula 1 coverage), he asked if passing Trulli was legal, then yielded the spot back when he was unsure. Seems like it was team orders in any case, which does shift the blame to Ryan. Drivers get the publicity, but within the teams they're sometimes regarded as replaceable and occasionally troublesome parts. If he got orders to give up the position, he pretty much had to follow them.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cory said:
Seems like it was team orders in any case, which does shift the blame to Ryan.
They're not in trouble for what went on in the race, they're in trouble for flat-out lying to the stewards on two occasions when asked about the incident.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
They're not in trouble for what went on in the race, they're in trouble for flat-out lying to the stewards on two occasions when asked about the incident.
That's right, moreover, the part of the incident that reflect so poorly on LH is from his press conference statements to the press after the lying had been discovered:

"Lewis Hamilton: In Melbourne, I had a great race. As soon as I got out the car I had the television interviews at the back of the garage, and straight away I gave them a good account of what happened during the race. Straight after that we were requested by the stewards, and while waiting for the stewards I was instructed and misled by my team manager to withhold information, and that is what I did."

Right, sure you were Lewis. Also, check the headline on Autosport today. Both LH and DR maintained their lies to the stewards after being presented with evidence that their statements were not true.
 

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Lemur-ing
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SteveCnj said:
That's right, moreover, the part of the incident that reflect so poorly on LH is from his press conference statements to the press after the lying had been discovered:

"Lewis Hamilton: In Melbourne, I had a great race. As soon as I got out the car I had the television interviews at the back of the garage, and straight away I gave them a good account of what happened during the race. Straight after that we were requested by the stewards, and while waiting for the stewards I was instructed and misled by my team manager to withhold information, and that is what I did."

Right, sure you were Lewis. Also, check the headline on Autosport today. Both LH and DR maintained their lies to the stewards after being presented with evidence that their statements were not true.
DR = Dr. Roebuck? :D


Team orders, covering their own butts, and hoping to move on. That about sums it up IMO.
 

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Knives, Guns, and Booze
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All this soap opera B.S. is really taking the fun out of the sport. All this “wah wah Ross Brawn’s diffuser blah blah waaaaah” and crap like that also makes me angry. Just STFU and race your damn cars, you whiners! Sheesh! Jenson Button’s already got two p1 starts and two p1 finishes under his belt, only two races into the season, so the other teams had better start telling their drivers to stop the all-night partying or something if they want to get on the podium too. Meanwhile, looking forward to the China GP, hope there’s no 23-laps-to-go monsoon red flag action as there was in Malaysia.
 
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