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I currently race and train on a giant tcr. Its a nice bike, but I want something "built for speed." A more direct type of ride, stiffer and more responsive. I weigh about 170. I am wondering if anyone out there has comments on a comparison of the Look 585 vs Pinarello F4:13.
 

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amcadoo said:
I currently race and train on a giant tcr. Its a nice bike, but I want something "built for speed." A more direct type of ride, stiffer and more responsive. I weigh about 170. I am wondering if anyone out there has comments on a comparison of the Look 585 vs Pinarello F4:13.
I was able to ride an F4:13 for a few days, and I bought a Look 585. The Look is significantly lighter (about 320g including fork). The Look is a pretty stiff frame, but the smoothest frame I have tried with that level of acceleration. It isn't phased at all with chip-seal roads, but accelerates like a scalded cat. This could also have something do to with the ridiculously light weight.

The F4:13 was stiffer, both acceleration-wise and in how it transmitted road vibrations. It was definitely the harshest carbon bike I have ridden, and was harsher than my CAAD8. The big downtube tells you that this bike means business. It was the best accelearting bike I have yet ridden-even a tad faster than the 585. I wouldn't want to ride it on a long, rough ride or as a training bike, though. A great "fast as possible from point A to point B" bike. Gita calls this the "carbon Prince" meaning that it is a stiff and fast race bike. A good choice for Crits and shorter races: not an all-day/stage race bike for the lighter rider. Very comparable to a Ridley Damocles: stiff, fast, not a lot of give.

Handling on each bike was similiar (the ONDA and HSC5sl forks are similiar in performance). Finish quality was MUCH better on the Look: the BB shell was faced and tapped, the headset went together very easily, the threaded insert for the rear brake boss went right into the frame with ease, the star-fangled nut replacement seated inside the steerer tube with ease, the paint was smoother and cleaner on the Look. The Pinarello was typically Italian finish quality: unfinished BB shell, overspray on the derailleur hangar threads; it was hard to get the fork into the frame (I had to use a 2x4 and rubber mallet to pound it in there, at the suggestion of the Gita tech), and the star-fangled nut replacement wouldn't stay put under pressure-it kept pulling out. I eventually had to sand both the outside of it (to rough it up) as well as the inside of the carbon steerer tube to get it to sit in without pulling out. Also, the seatpost clamp wouldn't tighten (post kept slipping) and I had to swap it with one from a Marvel to get it to hold. Once I got all of that taken care of, the F4:13 was fine, but it was a hassle. As a result, the Look built up in considerably less time and with much less frustration (it may not be an issue if you aren't building your own bike). FWIW, every Pinarello I have built seems to come this way, as have the Fondriests I have built. It seems to be an Italian finishing problem.

Build problems aside, these are both great bikes. The 585 is probably more akin to the new Paris Carbon: a performance race bike that is comfortable on long rides. The F4:13 is a flat-out race bike, with comfort at the expense of performance. At 150lbs, I found the F4:13 to be too stiff, but bigger guys find it more compliant. They are both great bikes, but really not built for the same purpose. If you could find a Dogma on closeout in your size, it may be a better buy: same weight, just as stiff, smoother ride.
 
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