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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello wiseguys (compliment),
I am going to purchase my first new quality road bike and it would be great if it was the last frame I purchase but I'm not holding my breath. I expect 10 good years at a minimum. Anyways, I live in Colorado and I want the shop I buy from to fit me for the right frame and parts. I have also eliminated Litespeed from the mix as well as rear stay carbon (i think). One more thing, I want a traditional geometry. And finally, I ride mostly recreationally up to a hundred miles per day, but mostly like 40 miles 2-3 times per week climbing and rolling. That being said I am down to a VaMoots (probably a dream though), sampson silverton (never seen one), merlin extralight or macalu (?) from excel sports, and douglas from colorado cyclist. should i consider others? is the douglas a nice bike with a good warranty? bike shop is very important to me, as i do not want internet and i would be uncomfortable bringing an internet frame into a bike shop to be kitted up. I would appreciate any input. thank you. i would like to get something in the next 30 days. my budget is 3000-6000 but i am a sucker for the best bang for the buck. thanks again.
 

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Best bang for the buck is the Douglas Colorado Cyclist has on sale right now for $900 including the Reynolds fork. I believe the frame is built by TST, which has a very good rep.

I believe the Macalu is a Litespeed (not that there is anything wrong with that). Actually, I wouldn't eliminate Litespeed from consideration. They don't seem to be doing the carbon rear anymore, and have gotten rid of the silly integrated headsets.

I think the "basic" Moots is actually a pretty good bang for the buck at a little over $2k for the frame. But if you have $6k you should also look at IF, Serotta and Spectrum.

Personally, I'd get the Moots, or a top quality steel frame for a little less money. Good luck and have fun.
 

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The Douglas bikes are made by Litespeed. Not sure why you're eliminating Litespeed, but given that you have, thought that might be useful knowledge.

Disclaimer: I'm passing on what I've heard from someone I trust as knowledgable without doing my own research. You may want to verify that claim.
 

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imetis said:
The Douglas bikes are made by Litespeed. Not sure why you're eliminating Litespeed, but given that you have, thought that might be useful knowledge.

Disclaimer: I'm passing on what I've heard from someone I trust as knowledgable without doing my own research. You may want to verify that claim.
Actually, it is generally accepted that Douglas titanium frames are made by TST (aka TiSport, aka Titanium Sports Technology): TST. TST is an offshoot of Sandvik (a leading titanium tubing mill). TST has made many OEM frames under a variety of different brand names.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
douglas

these bikes seem to be well liked for value more than quality. i am good with that. the precision plus with the rear carbon (do i want that?) and the precision ti without is the same price. that seems strange. is 6/4 titanium worth the upgrade? i don't mind if the material is made by litespeed. it must just be the stickers that give me a bad vibe. i must seem strange for that. anyways. the moots looks sweet. is it worth double the price? i don't even mind flying to an out of state bike place to get the perfect ride so if you can recommend places to look, i am totally into that as well. i am paranoid about fit though after my last bike so i definitely want to be fitted and try the bike before i bring it home.
 

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WorkHard said:
these bikes seem to be well liked for value more than quality. i am good with that. the precision plus with the rear carbon (do i want that?) and the precision ti without is the same price. that seems strange. is 6/4 titanium worth the upgrade? i don't mind if the material is made by litespeed. it must just be the stickers that give me a bad vibe. i must seem strange for that. anyways. the moots looks sweet. is it worth double the price? i don't even mind flying to an out of state bike place to get the perfect ride so if you can recommend places to look, i am totally into that as well. i am paranoid about fit though after my last bike so i definitely want to be fitted and try the bike before i bring it home.
Honestly, I'd decide what you want to spend and go from there. There is no way anyone can tell you whether or not a Moots is "worth" it compared to a Douglas. If you need a lot of help with fit a good LBS or good local custom builder is probably the way to go.
 

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Dean??

Tough to beat Douglass for price/value, but since you are in Colorado you might want to consider Dean. Some on this board have complained about their customer service, while some others have had better experience. Most agree though that their Ti frames are well made and look great. They are in Denver so maybe you could go in and work with them personally on fit, etc. They have a couple of Ti frames in the $1,400 to $1,600 range.
 

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couple of ways to look at frames -- value, performance at any cost, the what-I-like-to-be-seen-riding factor, and, dude, it's a bike.
I can be convinced to go with any of these theories. None are correct. They all have more to do with you than with any right or wrong choice.
Although I think people are embarrassed to come out swinging with the I'll buy the what-I-like-to-be-seen-riding bike and to hell with the rest of it.
there are lots of good choices out there. I've owned a Litespeed and a Douglas, three Pegoretti's, and a Fondriest. They've all had their merits.
Get what makes you giggle.
 

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Two Litespeeds.

bill said:
couple of ways to look at frames -- value, performance at any cost, the what-I-like-to-be-seen-riding factor, and, dude, it's a bike.
I can be convinced to go with any of these theories. None are correct. They all have more to do with you than with any right or wrong choice.
Although I think people are embarrassed to come out swinging with the I'll buy the what-I-like-to-be-seen-riding bike and to hell with the rest of it.
there are lots of good choices out there. I've owned a Litespeed and a Douglas, three Pegoretti's, and a Fondriest. They've all had their merits.
Get what makes you giggle.
I agree with Bill and also understand your caution. If I didn't know what fit me I would be somewhat hesitant one a major purchase considering that this is something that you intend to last a long time and be perfect. I have a Vortex and a custom made Classic and both are awesome frames. The Douglas is a great value and where I live one of the racers on the University of Illinois race team has one and loves the heck out of it. It apppears to be a nice bike and if I were considering another bike it would be at the top of the list along with Dean and Litespeed. Considering the amount of time your intending to keep this bike, I'm the same way with my bikes also, 6.4 titanium is definitely something to consider. My Vortex is a 1997 model purchased in 1996 so later this year it will be ten years old and is had never had an issue. Go to Coloradocyclist and get fit and ride many happy miles. Provided the fit is right you will have many miles and years of enjoyment.
 

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I would highly recommend titus ti. They are the best manufacturer to deal with, because they are still considered small (only about 20 employees i believe), and with that said are extremely customer friendly. A friend of mine works in their ti factory, and he works his A$$ off making gorgeous frames.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
good inputs

am i being ridiculous about not considering compact geometry? for some reason i am against everything my current bike is. i started considering a 853 steel bike last night after reading through posts. weight is not an issue with me, but scratched paint and oxidation is. i'm not sure that all 853 steel bikes are created equal, but i guess all titanium frames aren't either, that is how the $899 douglas frames are possible.
 

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Defender of Freedom...
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Near Boulder?

If you are give DEAN serious consideration. They are one of the Ti pioneers, their frames are top notch and their quality/price ratio is hard to beat. The main complaint you'll hear from some folks was llloonngg wait times for a custom build (6-8 weeks). But I didn't have that problem. They made compact and traditional versions of their frames as well as custom. You can probably go visit the guys in Boulder and take delivery there. If I was in CO I would have done just that to see the frame and the oplace of birth :) Just my 2 cents...

JR
 

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seems to me that a properly sized compact can give you the same riding position at a lower weight than classic geometry. Why not consider it?

I have heard it repeated often that 2 bikes can be identical on paper, and feel very different while riding. You are certainly gambling if you don't ride it first to make sure it feels right. Not saying that's a bad thing, just know you are accepting a risk.
 

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You're Not the Boss of Me
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If the Bike Shop is Important to You...

It is pretty hard not to just tell you to go to Excel Sports in Boulder and look at Seven or Macalu. They've got a great fitter, too (Wade Dollar).

Colorado Cyclist is a nice discount catalog-oriented kinda place, but I wouldn't call it an LBS in the traditional sense as much as Excel is, and I certainly have never heard of anyone buying a Douglas as their first and only ti bike (although the same might be said of Macalu... both are rebadged products of other builders).

The only thing you've named that is even competitive in that market is the Moots.

The Sampson Silverton is also a straight guage ti kinda basic ride, and to my knowledge, Eric Sampson is still undergoing cancer treatments and I'm not sure the status of getting bikes from him right now.
 

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Myth!

imetis said:
seems to me that a properly sized compact can give you the same riding position at a lower weight than classic geometry. Why not consider it?

I have heard it repeated often that 2 bikes can be identical on paper, and feel very different while riding. You are certainly gambling if you don't ride it first to make sure it feels right. Not saying that's a bad thing, just know you are accepting a risk.

Gawd, why do people keep repeating this crap? The only difference between a compact geometry and a standard geometry is aesthetics. If you like the look of compact, get one. If you don't, don't. The only other time there's a benefit is where a rider is short-legged and long-torsoed and is not getting a custom bike.

Let's not belabor it in this thread, but a compact frame has a shorter seat TUBE and longer seat POST to achieve the same geometry. The weight difference is virtually non-existant once a bike is built up, and if the guy were playing weight-weenie he'd be buying CF or aluminum anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
compact

jtolleson said:
Gawd, why do people keep repeating this crap? The only difference between a compact geometry and a standard geometry is aesthetics. If you like the look of compact, get one. If you don't, don't. The only other time there's a benefit is where a rider is short-legged and long-torsoed and is not getting a custom bike.

Let's not belabor it in this thread, but a compact frame has a shorter seat TUBE and longer seat POST to achieve the same geometry. The weight difference is virtually non-existant once a bike is built up, and if the guy were playing weight-weenie he'd be buying CF or aluminum anyway.


i wasn't trying to belabor this one. i am totally in agreement that i was biased from aesthetics. but that being said, i probably hated the aesthetics on my too-small-used giant with the super-stupid long seatpost. i am willing to try a compact that might fit better.
 

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You're Not the Boss of Me
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No, no. I wasn't responding to you ... I was responding to Imetis's recommendation of compact geometry for weight savings.
 

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um, yes. generally, you can all but tell by looking at a frame how stiff it is. the bigger the tubes, the stiffer. not a hard and fast rule, and builders are getting fancier all of the time with double and triple and octuple butting, but it's generally true.
although, as a 25 y/o Cat 2 told me recently, "phtt. stiff is overrated."
 

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my suggestion is to go to a really good bike shop and get what they suggest/sell. something custom like seven/moots/whatever. they will fit you and build it right and keep it going for those 10 years.

i think the quality of the service/knowledge at the bike shop is FAR more important than the sticker on the bike. the bike will fit and work, and if not they will correct it. they will warranty everything. swap the stem, etc...

the challenge might be finding that special shop.

if you dont have a shop in mind, i would call the usual quality bike makers like seven/IF/moots and ask for the bike shop near you.

for ti VS steel... say you save $1k. and you dont care about weight. figure a really high quality repaint is maybe $250 including tear down and rebuild. so you can have the bike repainted every 2 or 3 years during the 10 year life. and when it comes back it really looks like new, and it's a good time to check everything on the bike. you can even get a new color, which really makes it feel like new! but you are without the bike for a month or so.

find a good bike shop and listen to them.
 
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