Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner

1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
RoadBikeReview Addict
Joined
·
673 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
bought a set of used, 2005 Zipp 404's here in the classifieds a few months back and now have a few questions:

1.) Zipp carbon brake pads? Does it matter, as long as they're 'carbon-specific' pads? I know Shimano & Kool-Stop (I think) make carbon-specific pads.
2.) I've heard there are better valve extenders than the Zipps. I think Vittoria's are highly regarded? Any others?
3.) Finally, I'm not sure which tubbies to buy. My favorite clinchers have been the 'open-tubular' type - Veloflex Pave & Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX. These wheels will be used for *racing only* so I'm not too worried about tires that wear a little faster AS LONG AS THEY PERFORM - have excellent cornering grip, feel smooth & stable while descending, offer great 'road feel', and of course, are lightweight). I'll be satisfied to get one race season out of them but happy to get more. I think I'm planning on using them for all types of racing - crits, road races, & the occassional TT, but may narrow it down to one or two type(s) of race(s) once I start using them.
4.) I guess this last choice is correlated to which kind of tubular tires I decide on - brand of glue or tape.

Thanks,
 

·
Resident Curmudgeon
Joined
·
11,979 Posts
I haven't used tubulars in many years, so I can't answer most of your questions due to changes in design, etc. Your last question...I used to go to an auto parts store and buy 3M Trim & Tack Adhesive. They also make a solvent for it that works well when you want to clean up your rims. The stuff has a really tenacious grip.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,601 Posts
1) type/brand of pads matter, they perform better/worse depending on used combo.
2) Tufo extenders are pretty good.
3) Veloflex Carbon or Criterium tubulars.
4) Vittoria Mastik'One glue.
 

·
member
Joined
·
497 Posts
I 2nd the Veloflex suggestion

I'm on my 4th Criterium and 2nd Service Course (narrower but great for tt's or on the front in road races - they handle better than one would think). Both models are hands down the best race tires I've used. Never used the newer "Carbon" model. Looks like an excuse to charge a bit more money. Probably still a great tire, but I really like their original rubber compound. The 22mm Criteriums are best for all purpose racing and cheaper than the Service Course, but still very pricey. They are also the best (within reason - never used Dugasts or anything fancy like that). They are a true 240 gram tire which is about as light as standard tubulars get. Sure, you can get some guaranteed lightweight Tufos, but they aren't that durable according to a couple teammates of mine.

Conti sprinters or more puncture prone, heavier (about 275 grams), and slightly slower. They are still a nice tubular and one of my favorites for cornering in rain. The very similar Conti Competitions cost as much and don't have the same suppleness as Veloflex tires, but they're super strong and only slightly heavier than a Criterium.

I also have a pair of Schwalbe Stelvios that glued up dead straight on the rim and are 240 grams. I stumbled upon a good deal, but they are pricey and hard to find in the U.S. They are a tubeless design and not repairable if the sealant doesn't work. They are more like the Conti Competitions in terms of durability and ride feel, so not as supple as Veloflex. I suspect they are slower rolling too, but couldn't find rolling resistance data. They feel very sticky in corners. Probably not my first choice for tt's, but wouldn't hesitate to use them for RR's and crits.

In case you see them on the internet, I have also used a Challenge Criterium and it's okay, but nothing special. There's no way I would pay the retail price for it. They use a thick rubber strip as an antipuncture layer which makes the tire tall, kind of floppy, and rougher riding than it should be with its nice "handmade casing," which wasn't very straight. I never weighed it, but it was much more than the advertised 240 grams. It felt more like my cheap 300 gram Hutchinsons and Vittoria Rally's..

I don't think Vittorias are worth the price. They used to be very nice handling tires, equal to the Veloflex. Since moving to Taiwan, the material quality has dropped, they have more lumps, and the new "technology" makes for a less suppple tire. I think there is a bigger difference between Veloflex & Vittoria tubulars than in their clinchers. The Vittoria tubulars might be more puncture resistant, but then again, I've never flatted on my Veloflex tubies. Pave clinchers yes, Criteriums no.

People either love or hate Tufos. Personally, I'm not impressed with them but others might say otherwise. Very slow rolling and not particularly smooth, but they also tend to be pretty strong and are lump free. Their good tires worth racing on tend to cost as much as everyone else, but with less suppleness, so I don't use them. But, looking at the tire, I'm wondering if my Schwalbe's might be a relabled Tufo. Either way, neither holds a candle to Veloflex.

To summarize, Conti Sprinters are the best bang for your buck and quite race worthy. Veloflex Criteriums are worth it if you have the money. Conti Competitions are almost as nice and better if you're racing on gravel in February.

I've been using Conti glue since that is what I can get most easily. Vittoria Mastik is my favorite, but you don't want to start mixing brands or bad things start happening, like rolled tires. I'm not a tape guy. Tape vs. glue is almost like a Campy vs. Shimano discussion.

I have alloy valve extenders. They don't work all that well but they were light and free. Use the more airtight, heavier brass ones if your Zipps need balancing. My Shamals are very heavy opposite from the valve hole, where the rim ends join. Carbon rims might not have the same issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
For the best results....

use the Corima cork pads, they have the best stopping power and will do no damage to the braking surface. I've used Campy, and Kool-Stop and they both sucked for braking .
I recommend sticking with the Vittoria Corsa tubulars, can't get a better ride quality.
Here's a tip for all that reads:
I put four table spoons of STAN's (who syas you can't learn from mountain bikers) no tube in the tubulars and I haven't flatted once. Or not that I know off. The TUFO stuff don't work because it doesn't have the micro fibers to plug the holes. Great way to save a $90.00 tubular.

As for the glue the Vittoria M One was a good choice untill recently. For some reason all the glue that I received isn't lasting. It's harding way to fast and turning plastic like with in a few months.

Best glue on the market is the Soyo and you'll pay twice as much for it, about $7.50/tube. Lots of people are going to or back to tubulars in San Diego.
For me no flats in five years. At most 110psi at my 152lbs.
If you get the Corima pads contact me and I'll tell you how to install them without breaking the pads and install the Stan's no tube laytex solution.

ron
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,601 Posts
BenR, not sure how long ago you weighed those tires? Currently they're between 265-270g a piece.

Ron Lacey, as stated earlier, you can't make blanket statements regarding carbon rim brake pads. For instance, Campagnolo pads work excellently with their own rims and Corima. As for Corima pads, I'd try hard to find an alternative before I'd settle on those. Even when they brake well with your combo they still feel mushy.
 

·
Old, slow, and fat.
Joined
·
3,897 Posts
Last pair of Zipps I had were track wheels, but...

Tires:
Budget decent tires Tufo S3Pros
Not so budget: Contis (mmmmm love the natural rubber!)

Glue:
Conti in the bucket! I like the brush that comes in the lid. Failing that: Fastack

Valve extenders:
Irrelevant. Get the ones that unscrew and unscrew em!

HTH,

M
 

·
Arrogant roadie.....
Joined
·
4,232 Posts
FWIW, don't use FasTack, unless you need to set a tire in record time before a race. FasTack dries out in only a few weeks, leaving you unglued. It also ruins base tapes.

Tubular tape should be avoided, unless you buy Tufo tape and tires and plan to keep them mounted until they are worn out. Any repairable tire will be torn asunder when you attempt to remove Tufo tape from the base tape. All other tubular tapes are crap, so don't even consider them.

If you want top ride and feel, consider Conti Comps (but remember to only use Conti glue on them!), or Vittoria Corsas. Just remember-Vittorias have latex tubes, and will lose 1/2 of their air overnight.
 

·
RoadBikeReview Addict
Joined
·
673 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Thanks guys!

Based upon your replies and my satisfaction w/Veloflex clinchers, I think I'm going to go ahead and order the Veloflex Carbons (like that they're all black and 10g lighter than the Criteriums). Then again, I've also been fond of my Conti GP3000, 4000, and 4-Season clinchers too (except when the mesh netting on the sidewalls of the 4-Season's start to break apart and come off). Conti's new Competitions have Vectran in them now, too.

Also based on your inputs I've decided to probably go with the Vittoria Mastik'One glue...unless Conti glue works better on Veloflex tires? If I end up choosing the Conti Comp's, then I'll go w/Conti glue.

I have no idea about Valve Extenders yet, but will probably go with Vittorias or Tufos. Alloy or plastic ones to keep the weight down, and I don't think I'll need brass to offset the rim weight opposite the valve hole, since they are carbon rims.

Lastly, re: brake pads for carbon rims... I guess I'll buy the Zipp pads since I'm using their rims, unless somebody says otherwise.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
I won't comment on everything, as there's a ton of good info in this thread regarding tubies. As for the valve extenders, I much prefer the Vittorias. They still work as a regular valve, unlike the simple alloy tubes. They also come with their own rubber bit where they replace the old valve internals so there's no air leakage. A great product.

One more note, if your using other than conti tubes, be sure to lightly sand the tape on the underside of the tubie to rough it up. Most companies coat this with something and they'll adhere better if it's sanded a bit.

Cheers!
 

·
RoadBikeReview Addict
Joined
·
673 Posts
Discussion Starter #11
Right - I knew I heard something especially good about the Vittoria valve extenders a while back.

Right again - read this in your other reply and I do appreciate it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
841 Posts
jtferraro said:
Thanks guys!

Based upon your replies and my satisfaction w/Veloflex clinchers, I think I'm going to go ahead and order the Veloflex Carbons (like that they're all black and 10g lighter than the Criteriums). Then again, I've also been fond of my Conti GP3000, 4000, and 4-Season clinchers too (except when the mesh netting on the sidewalls of the 4-Season's start to break apart and come off). Conti's new Competitions have Vectran in them now, too.

Also based on your inputs I've decided to probably go with the Vittoria Mastik'One glue...unless Conti glue works better on Veloflex tires? If I end up choosing the Conti Comp's, then I'll go w/Conti glue.

I have no idea about Valve Extenders yet, but will probably go with Vittorias or Tufos. Alloy or plastic ones to keep the weight down, and I don't think I'll need brass to offset the rim weight opposite the valve hole, since they are carbon rims.

Lastly, re: brake pads for carbon rims... I guess I'll buy the Zipp pads since I'm using their rims, unless somebody says otherwise.

I'll jump on the Veloflex tires/Vittoria Mastik bandwagon. The Veloflex crits are really nice tires (danny at critusa has very reasonable prices and good service) and the glue and the tire work well together. Are you sure that the carbons are lighter?
 

·
RoadBikeReview Addict
Joined
·
673 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
No problem - I'm glad I heard it again. It just reinforces it...now I won't forget. =)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7 Posts
Actually, I can...

divve said:
BenR, not sure how long ago you weighed those tires? Currently they're between 265-270g a piece.

Ron Lacey, as stated earlier, you can't make blanket statements regarding carbon rim brake pads. For instance, Campagnolo pads work excellently with their own rims and Corima. As for Corima pads, I'd try hard to find an alternative before I'd settle on those. Even when they brake well with your combo they still feel mushy.
make that statement. I've used the Corima, Campy, Kool-Stop, ZIPP and a few others. Corima and Campy works best. The Corima pads left little to no markings on the rims after 4k miles. It's softer than the other pads and gives a Antilocking-Braking-System:D feel when braking. That's a good thing
Best of all; no heat buildup under long hard braking on long descents.
Ever melt a rim?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,501 Posts
Ron Lacey said:
make that statement. I've used the Corima, Campy, Kool-Stop, ZIPP and a few others. Corima and Campy works best. The Corima pads left little to no markings on the rims after 4k miles. It's softer than the other pads and gives a Antilocking-Braking-System:D feel when braking. That's a good thing
Best of all; no heat buildup under long hard braking on long descents.
Ever melt a rim?
Are you in marketing? You are making a pitch that pads that won't stop you are great.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
123 Posts
Dave_Stohler said:
You MUST use Conti glue on Conti tires. Anything else will ruin the base tape.
I'm not going to discount this statement outright, but I've never heard/read this and I've been using Mastik One on Sprinters for a while now and have never noticed any problems with the base tape.

I personally think the Mastik One is superior glue.

The Kool Stop carbon pads work great for me.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,843 Posts
Brake pads- SWISSSTOP

For brake pads I'd try swissstop yellow. Its what most of the pros use. I use them on my reynolds carbon wheels and they're the only ones that have provided true stopping power without squealing like pigs. I've also used campy and kool-stop, and I think the zipp pads are made by kool-stop. After using kool-stop pads, my opinion of them is pretty low- as a matter of fact, I'd rather risk using no brakes than using their junk!
You can get swissstops at worldclasscycles.com or labicicletta.com I've ordered from both and they are both reliable shops
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top