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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
All I can say is today was the fastest 27.3 miles I've ever ridden on a bike :D

We had the State Team TIme Trial Championships here in Oregon today and my team competed in the CAT 4/5 class. We went into it thinking we had a very good shot at winning and definately gave it our best shot.

The course was a 7 mile loop that we did 3.8 laps on for a total of 27.3 miles. This gave lots of carrots during the race since there were teams spread out all over the course.

We had a very strong 4 man team going into the race and were 2nd off the line. By the 3-4 mile mark we had caught them and left them far behind.

We had one guy on our team that had never participated in a Time Trial and he gave it his best shot, but he ended up getting a big gap coming out of a turn on the 2nd lap and we couldn't risk slowing down to get him back on so the 3 of us took off from there, which hurt a bit in the end since we didn't get as much rest in our rotation.

Overall we finished with a time of 59:26 with an average speed of 27.55 mph.....which was good enough for 2nd place :mad2: I can't help but think of all the time wasted on the course that would have brought us into that first spot...but never having ridden as a complete group and having a lot of issues on the first lap cost us.

Live and learn I guess....sucks to be the 1st loser, but it was a great ride with some very fast teammates.

Now it's time to start training for the ITT State Championships in August...along with some short track XC racing on my cyclocross bike in June/July :D

Here are a few pics of me and my team from today...I'm leadout in all three pictures, the other big guys is a freak of a Time Trialist.

Looks like next year for a 1st in the TTT....:mad2:

Edit: Looks like there have been some changes in the overal results of the CAT 4/5 and we took 1st. They had the winners at 58:07 and now it looks like they were 68:07...slight miscalculation there....WooHoo!!!....I'm just hoping the results stay this way now!
 

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Cool!

But why did you say next year for first when you have another one in August as you said? Hmm... :confused:

If your other teammate had a TT helmet :D

Good job man.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
uzziefly said:
Cool!

But why did you say next year for first when you have another one in August as you said? Hmm... :confused:

If your other teammate had a TT helmet :D

Good job man.
It's the "Individual" State Time Trials in August....this was the "Team" State Time Trials today.

They only do the TTT once a year here...and I don't think they have any multi day stage races where they do it either....so just once a year for the TTT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Just a general update on the results:

I checked with the race director and our team did take 1st place...When they were going through the results they had a math error with the other team.

So we ended up winning the CAT 4/5 class by approximately 4.5 minutes and our time was fast enough for 3rd in the CAT 3's.

It was a lot of fun and if you ever get a chance to participate in a TTT you should try it. It's a whole different experience than regular racing or even regular TT's.
 

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Wookiebiker said:
Just a general update on the results:

I checked with the race director and our team did take 1st place...When they were going through the results they had a math error with the other team.

So we ended up winning the CAT 4/5 class by approximately 4.5 minutes and our time was fast enough for 3rd in the CAT 3's.

It was a lot of fun and if you ever get a chance to participate in a TTT you should try it. It's a whole different experience than regular racing or even regular TT's.
Nice ride! (by both Portland Velo 3 & 4 teams) It's amazing how calm the wind was and there were a huge number of rippin' times. I was part of the cat 4 winning team in '05 and the wind was a major factor and we rode a 1:04 :)

Your cat 3 team beat my team by 5 seconds (argh!) The TTT is really so haphazard with 20-30 teams out on the course with varying skill levels and on different laps. The nasty Z-Team crash happened when they were finishing to our left and nearly took us out as well. I love the race, it's one of the most fun races all year, but I can't take the results too seriously. A really good ride is about 90% practice and communication with the team, 5% luck and 5% fitness of the riders.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
gray8110 said:
Nice ride! (by both Portland Velo 3 & 4 teams) It's amazing how calm the wind was and there were a huge number of rippin' times. I was part of the cat 4 winning team in '05 and the wind was a major factor and we rode a 1:04 :)

Your cat 3 team beat my team by 5 seconds (argh!) The TTT is really so haphazard with 20-30 teams out on the course with varying skill levels and on different laps. The nasty Z-Team crash happened when they were finishing to our left and nearly took us out as well. I love the race, it's one of the most fun races all year, but I can't take the results too seriously. A really good ride is about 90% practice and communication with the team, 5% luck and 5% fitness of the riders.

Yea, we couldn't have had better conditions. The temps were perfect, almost no wind and the clouds kept it from being bright so you could see the road really well.

The course was great also, a couple of turns to slow things down, power washed the night before so no real dirt on the road and overall a nice layout for something like this. With all the teams on the road we were never at a loss for "Carrots" to chase which was nice.

We basically didn't have any real practice time as a team. The 3 of us that finished together had rode together on our TT bikes once about a month and a half ago...the 4th guy that got popped off the back never had ridden with us.

Our first lap was pretty disorganized, lots of pace problems and rotation issues. Once we hit the second lap things started working better, but we lost our 4th man on 1st turn on the south end of the course so we had 2.5 laps without him...which hurt a little with recovery between riders.

With more practice time we could have been a fair amount faster...but with this only coming around once a year it's not something we really put a lot of time into.

The crashes were crazy...I remember passing one of the riders as he was laying on the side of the road being attended to...not sure which team but he looked a bit messed up. Several people suffered some pretty serious injuries....The TTT is definitely a race where you need to stay on your toes and pay attention!

Congrats on your results.

Considering there were only two teams to go under 1 hour last year and I think there were 13 teams under it this year....it says a lot for the difference in weather conditions. It was a lot of fun though, nothing like a hours worth of "Pure" intervals! :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
pretender said:
It was important enough for disc wheels and matching costumes, but not important enough to practice for?
Well, two of us are pretty much Time Trail specialists who do other races for the fun of it...One of the other two does TT's because he's fast, but is pretty much just a mass start road racer...the other one had never done a TT before and is just a strong road racer.

So for two of us it was very important, for one of us it was fairly important, and for the 4th he didn't know what to expect but wanted to help the team as best as he could.

Add all of that in with the fact that there we are in the heart of the racing season, people have families, jobs, one had a crash a month ago and well....it makes it hard to get everybody together at one time.

Such is life....we won our class by 4.5 minutes...I'll take it :D
 

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pretender said:
It was important enough for disc wheels and matching costumes, but not important enough to practice for?

Hmmm. It can be pretty tough to make time to practice together as a team. There's you now, work, family and such that can get in the way. Heck, outside of racing, I only get together with my Cat 3 team once every couple of weeks if we're lucky! Even still, we wear our same "costumes" at the races. I'll even throw on my carbon tubulars. Sure hope that's ok with you. :rolleyes5:
 

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tone12 said:
Hmmm. It can be pretty tough to make time to practice together as a team. There's you now, work, family and such that can get in the way. Heck, outside of racing, I only get together with my Cat 3 team once every couple of weeks if we're lucky! Even still, we wear our same "costumes" at the races. I'll even throw on my carbon tubulars. Sure hope that's ok with you. :rolleyes5:
I had to hold myself back from ripping into pretender for that smartass comment... A TTT is a pretty rare event, most riders only get the chance to do maybe one a year and it takes tons of practice to get good at them. Even when you can prepare for them, an event like Saturday's adds a whole new level of unpredictability with 25 other teams out on the same 7 mile circuit at the same time. I'll echo what tone12 said in that it is hard to get 4 guys out to practice. My team had 3 weeks to prepare and could only get the four of us together twice to work on technique. We're already talking about next year.

The equipment is irrelevant, there aren't riders out there buying special TT gear just to do the TTT - there are plenty of riders out there that race TTs or Tris or Stage races and have the stuff already - if you've go it, use it. Matching kits? Those four riders are on the same team - you know the first T in TTT is TEAM - most teams have a matching kit. Good grief.
 

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I agree with Pretender's comment.

I think that TTs should be about the engine, the pacing (and teamwork for a TTT) and getting a good aero position. Worry about equipment when you have the other parts in good shape.

Cycling is an expensive enough sport as it is. Personally, I'd love to see most of the aero equipment disallowed in developmental categories (cats 3-5) so people can concentrate on the essentials. There are enough barriers to entry into the sport without making people feel that they need to shell out even more $$$ to have a hope of doing well in TTs.

In my experience, TTers are even more defensive than roadies when anyone makes a mildly critical comment. Flame away.
 

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flanman said:
I think that TTs should be about the engine, the pacing (and teamwork for a TTT) and getting a good aero position. Worry about equipment when you have the other parts in good shape.
I was just giving Wookie some s&%t because I know that he does train for his ITTs and takes the discipline pretty seriously.

Of course, it would have helped for his TTT team to have done a session together before their race, but modern life is what it is.

At the Piru TT series in lower California, they had (still have?) an "Eddy Merckx" category, no aero allowed.
 

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Awesome result Wookie. I'm in the shoes you were in back in Jan 2007. I'd love it if I had your success 18 months from now. No matter how you slice it 27.55 mph for an hour is a fantastic time.
 

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flanman said:
I agree with Pretender's comment.

I think that TTs should be about the engine, the pacing (and teamwork for a TTT) and getting a good aero position. Worry about equipment when you have the other parts in good shape.

Cycling is an expensive enough sport as it is. Personally, I'd love to see most of the aero equipment disallowed in developmental categories (cats 3-5) so people can concentrate on the essentials. There are enough barriers to entry into the sport without making people feel that they need to shell out even more $$$ to have a hope of doing well in TTs.

In my experience, TTers are even more defensive than roadies when anyone makes a mildly critical comment. Flame away.
"Aero equipment disallowed"? It already is. There are all kinds of rules limiting what can be used in TTs. I read the 'abridged' version of the rules governing equipment in TTs, as a prelude to doing MY first TT. Many many rules against aerodynamic equipment.

But as you try to prohibit expensive stuff with the rules, the techno-Geeks just go to greater expense bypassing your rules, for a lesser advantage.. At larger USA Cycling and UCI races, you are even proscribed as to how you can adjust your bike..the officials now bring along a "template bike' and yours can be measured against that template (never seen this process) and you will be penalized or DSQed if you are "out of spec". But, to get around these rules, equipment has come along built just for the rule, like those short squared-off saddles with no nose, to allow the rider to sit far forward without getting penalized for having the saddle too far forward (measured by "The Template" in a plumb line from the nose of the saddle to the BB).

Dunno, should we be required to Time trial on conventional road bikes? I kinda like going really fast with the aero bars and a disc wheel, the helmet (don't have a skin-suit yet)..But I don't feel hugely disadvantaged by not having a TT-only frame...So the current rules seem to do an adequate job of limiting equipment...A few years ago, I would have HAD to have a TT frame, when they allowed the 'funny-bikes' to race...Now I can compete a normal bike and only give up a small bit of time or I can spend a little more...or I can stay home.

Don Hanson
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Einstruzende said:
Awesome result Wookie. I'm in the shoes you were in back in Jan 2007. I'd love it if I had your success 18 months from now. No matter how you slice it 27.55 mph for an hour is a fantastic time.
Thanks....Even if the aero equipment was taken away, there is a pretty good chance we still win our class considering we won by 4.5 minutes.

I got our lap time splits today: 14:00 (short lap), 15:11, 15:10, 15:05

So we were basically hitting negative/even splits for each lap, so even with our lack of practice we were very consistant in our lap times.

As for being in my shoes from 18 months ago...Just keep working at it, sometimes it's frustrating, sometimes exciting, but it's always a fair amount of work. If you keep at it, things will eventually come around for you :thumbsup:
 

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Here in CO I see 12 year olds with disc wheels. I think there's something wrong there. I see guys in developmental cats spend thousands on aero equipment but only maybe 20% of them are close to getting a flat back or a good aero position.

I find that those taking up competitive cycling are often intimidated by the sheer expense of it all. That's bad for the sport. This is very important for TTs because it's often the first entry point for those that are trying racing.

My take on things is that in developmental cats all aero equipment should not be allowed. people should race on pretty much stock. If you want to go for the full aero bling, then race an open Cat.

I admire those like Wookie that train hard and achieve remarkable improvements. However, I think that we should encourage the trends that makes one a better cyclist and leave buying seconds or minutes to the non-developmental cats.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
flanman said:
Here in CO I see 12 year olds with disc wheels. I think there's something wrong there. I see guys in developmental cats spend thousands on aero equipment but only maybe 20% of them are close to getting a flat back or a good aero position.

I find that those taking up competitive cycling are often intimidated by the sheer expense of it all. That's bad for the sport. This is very important for TTs because it's often the first entry point for those that are trying racing.

My take on things is that in developmental cats all aero equipment should not be allowed. people should race on pretty much stock. If you want to go for the full aero bling, then race an open Cat.

I admire those like Wookie that train hard and achieve remarkable improvements. However, I think that we should encourage the trends that makes one a better cyclist and leave buying seconds or minutes to the non-developmental cats.
I disagree and here is why:

1) Most people out there were running aero equipment and all had aero bars, whether a true TT set up or clip ons. Much of the equipment is actually fairly cheap. Aero helmets are as cheap or cheaper than a nice road bike helmet, shoe covers are $30.00. My skin-suit was 1/2 the cost of a cheap set of Assos Bib shorts, my wheels combined were almost half the cost of a Zipp rear disc.

In this day and age most riders have a set of deep dish wheels to choose from for their road bike and many come stock with them...in some cases limiting the equipment would cause some people to have to go out and purchase new equipment because they don't have anything that's not aero!

I have a total of about $2300.00 in my TT bike and that includes wheels (all of which I paid for brand new) and know people that have spent much less overall by shopping used.

2) I might agree with you that a 12 year old doesn't need a disc wheel...but aero is where it's at for TT's. Are you going to limit the weight of a 12 year olds road race bike? How about what wheels and tires they can use for road races?

What about the kid whose father spends 4K on a 15 pound road race bike compared to the other kid that has a 23 pound $500.00 bike and clips and straps? It's not just TT's where the is a competitive advantage with equipment. How about MTB'ing? Same thing....There will always be people with a competitive advantage with equipment...Even in the pro's

3) For all but the CAT 1/2 Pro classes....cycling and racing is a "HOBBY" it's what we do to stay in shape, keep a competitive edge, have fun with teammates and push ourselves every now and then. It's no different than a golfer getting a set of $2,000 golf clubs, paying several hundred dollars for a tennis racket, Several hundred dollars for a softball bat...etc.

Why limit anything on the bike at the lower levels of racing? The reality is all lower level CAT's are non-developmental. How many 30 year old CAT 5 racers do you know that moved/worked into the Pro ranks? If you are not a CAT 1/2 by 18-20 years old...chances are your never going to be racing in a "Developmental" category and not going to be racing in the pro's.

It just doesn't make sense unless you can't afford the equipment...and even then many places have "Retro" categories where all aero equipment is not allowed....so people still have a competitive place to go without spending money on a new bike.

Local racing isn't developmental unless it's a Jr. Category or a CAT 1/2 pro class....everything else is a hobby for adults and most never go past CAT 3 nor do they want to. I know plenty of people that don't want to move to CAT 1/2 because of the additional time, effort, etc. it would take to move to that level and it would take to much time away from their job and families that they would no longer be competitive...that doesn't sound like a developmental category to me....it sounds like a hobby!

BTW...all the aero equipment in the world isn't going to help you unless you put the work in to begin with. It's still about the rider and not about the equipment. As you can see in the pictures on our team two of the guys were not running aero equipment other than some semi-deep dish wheels and aero bars. Yet they were still able to stay up (though one did get dropped because he had never competed in a TT before and didn't quite know what to expect).

Edit: In addition....what about the Tri guy that only has a Tri bike, aero helmet, skinsuit, etc...and doesn't own a regular road bike. He's never raced a road race and just wants to do TT's for training? In Oregon that rider "HAS" to ride in the CAT 5 class or age catagory and if he's under 30 years of age he "HAS" to ride in the CAT 5 as the open catagory is only for CAT 1/2 racers and they won't let him move up!

In this case this guy has to go out and buy a complete new bike, helmet and riding gear just to compete in TT's and it does him/her no benifit because now they are in a position that they are not training for on a regular basis.

I know about the upgrading because both my self and one of my teamates asked to be CAT'ed up because we were beating the CAT5's, had times that would win the CAT 4's and I was running times that were top 5 in CAT 3's and my teamate was beating CAT 1/2 guys and posting best times at many TT's....but the sanctioning body wouldn't move either of us up in the TT Catagories because the only way to move up is in "Mass Start" road races.

Take away the aero gear, and we still win the TTT in the CAT 4/5 because realistically we had 3 guys that should have been competing on the CAT 3 level, but due to rules none of us could move up. Our fastest TT guy on our team that's beating 1/2's is a dualathlete and has just been doing TT's to train for that and has decided to do some road races so he can move up....is that fair?

BTW....The fastest overall time of the day was turned in by a group of 40+ year old racers at 56:30 with an average speed of right at 29mph! Not the CAT 1/2 pro's who should have the Aero gear by your definition.
 
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