[kapusta]

Depends on the degrees of the stem. 7deg you are very close, 35deg it does change a little.

We may not be talking about the same thing, here.

It is true that if all you flip a stem from down to up that the reach to the saddle is reduced. Further, as you correctly state, the 35 deg stem will do so more than the 7 deg stem.

However, the point I was making (in response to DrSmile's post) is that raising the bars the same amount via spacers leaves the bar in an identical position, with identical fit and handling characteristics. In other words, using spacers to raise the bars also decreases horizontal reach to the saddle, just like flipping the stem.

DrSmile was suggesting (if I am reading his post correctly) that it is better to use spacers rather than flipping the stem, because flipping the stem effectively shortens it. While it is true that flipping the stem shortens it (sort of, depends how you are measuring it, and for what purpose) using spacers does the exact same thing.

 

[kapusta]

[FONT=&]I replaced my stem recently, and while installing the new one, decided to flip it to a positive rise angle instead of negative. Wasn't sure if I would like it at first, after taking the bike on a couple rides, I love the new position. The bars sit almost an inch higher, and now I can ride in the drops a lot more comfortably, even for hours at a time. The bike feels faster and more responsive, and I don't even really want to use the brake hoods anymore. I'm sure this doesn't mean much to experienced riders who already have their fit dialed in, but it's exciting to have such a simple change pay off so well, and a little ironic that making the bike more relaxed allowed my to use a more aggressive riding position.[/FONT]appvalley tutuapp tweakbox

Congrats and learning for yourself what works. Same thing happened to me.

Getting a proper fit about 10 years ago resulted in my bars being raised quite a bit. As a result I spend a lot more time in the drops, which are still significantly lower than my hoods were before the change. In other words, I became MORE aero by raising my bars. I ride with a number of people who almost never use their drops, except on some DH sections. So while there setups LOOK more aero, in reality they are not when you factor in the rider using them.

 

[BCSaltchucker]

This very bike was ridden to win the 1994 Tour De France by a pro rider in his prime. Effectively had a 'flipped stem.' He even had the steerer tube cut long with extra spacers put in when NO ONE was doing that.

 

[DrSmile]

We may not be talking about the same thing, here.

It is true that if all you flip a stem from down to up that the reach to the saddle is reduced. Further, as you correctly state, the 35 deg stem will do so more than the 7 deg stem.

However, the point I was making (in response to DrSmile's post) is that raising the bars the same amount via spacers leaves the bar in an identical position, with identical fit and handling characteristics. In other words, using spacers to raise the bars also decreases horizontal reach to the saddle, just like flipping the stem.

DrSmile was suggesting (if I am reading his post correctly) that it is better to use spacers rather than flipping the stem, because flipping the stem effectively shortens it. While it is true that flipping the stem shortens it (sort of, depends how you are measuring it, and for what purpose) using spacers does the exact same thing.

This scenario is really a figment of your imagination. A bike will have the fork cut already, as the OP. It is highly unlikely that there are enough spacers on top of the stem to match the flipped stem. In reality when you flip the stem the steerer length stays the same and you have in fact effectively shortened the stem length.

 

[kapusta]

This scenario is really a figment of your imagination. A bike will have the fork cut already, as the OP. It is highly unlikely that there are enough spacers on top of the stem to match the flipped stem. In reality when you flip the stem the steerer length stays the same and you have in fact effectively shortened the stem length.

YOU are the one who suggested using spacers instead of flipping his stem.

So it appears your imagination shares this figment.

But again, the point is, flipping the stem or adding an equal number of spacers are the same thing. Only difference is aesthetics.

 

[DrSmile]

YOU are the one who suggested using spacers instead of flipping his stem.

So it appears your imagination shares this figment.

But again, the point is, flipping the stem or adding an equal number of spacers are the same thing. Only difference is aesthetics.

I'm not getting into a fight about you only reading part of my post... If you were BUILDING a bike, you'd get a frame with a taller headtube or use spacers. Only an idiot would flip the stem while building a bike to get a higher bar if the spacer limit wasn't a concern, which is why I posted the spacer limit rule to begin with. In the OPs case, and pretty much every case (yes there are very few exceptions that prove the rule) flipping the stem shortens your effective stem length. So yes the OP has shortened their stem length by flipping the stem. End of story.

 

[kapusta]

Only an idiot would flip the stem while building a bike to get a higher bar if the spacer limit wasn't a concern, which is why I posted the spacer limit rule to begin with.

Why? The only difference between flipping the stem vs adding spacers is aesthetics (and a few grams worth of spacers and steer tube). There is no other difference. Nothing. Nada. Zip. And no bike that I have ever owned has a 20mm spacer rule. What is silly in my book would be using 40mm of spacers with a stem angled down when you could use a 10mm spacer with the same stem flipped up and achieve the identical result.

In the OPs case, and pretty much every case (yes there are very few exceptions that prove the rule) flipping the stem shortens your effective stem length. So yes the OP has shortened their stem length by flipping the stem. End of story.

I think you need to explain what you mean by "effectively shortens the stem length".

If you mean length relative to the steer tube... then no, it does not reduce that length. If you measure the perpendicular length from the steer tube to the bar clamp, that distance does not change when you flip it. Insofar as stem length affects the steering, there is no difference.

If you mean that it changes the distance from the bar to the saddle.... yes, it does that. However, using spacers instead does the exact same thing.

The reason I am questioning what you are saying is because you are citing a (potentially valid) concern about the effect of flipping a stem on the bike fit, but then suggesting an alternative (putting spacers under the stem) which has the exact same effect.

 

[DrSmile]

If the bike is riding itself I guess then the geometry doesn't matter, in which case your arguments make sense. Given a rider and a cut fork, which is the case 100% of the time, they don't This reminds me of people arguing about how great disk brakes are in the rain on road bikes with no fenders...

 

[mfdemicco]

If you want to see what effect flipping the stem and changing the spacers have, see this tool: http://yojimg.net/bike/web_tools/stem.php

 

[Larmon]

I replaced my stem recently, and while installing the new one, decided to flip it to a positive rise angle instead of negative. Wasn't sure if I would like it at first, after taking the bike on a couple rides, I love the new position. The bars sit almost an inch higher, and now I can ride in the drops a lot more comfortably, even for hours at a time. The bike feels faster and more responsive, and I don't even really want to use the brake hoods anymore. I'm sure this doesn't mean much to experienced riders who already have their fit dialed in, but it's exciting to have such a simple change pay off so well, and a little ironic that making the bike more relaxed allowed my to use a more aggressive riding position.

Yours is a lesson in strength and flexibilty.

Everyone has their own limits, and trick is to finding what works well for you.

You’ve found a better fit for yourself, thats great.

There are many who are just as comfortable with a very low angle, because their body allows it,
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[Johnamaro]

I replaced my stem recently, and while installing the new one, decided to flip it to a positive rise angle instead of negative. Wasn't sure if I would like it at first, after taking the bike on a couple rides, I love the new position. The bars sit almost an inch higher, and now I can ride in the drops a lot more comfortably, even for hours at a time. The bike feels faster and more responsive, and I don't even really want to use the brake hoods anymore. I'm sure this doesn't mean much to experienced riders who already have their fit dialed in, but it's exciting to have such a simple change pay off so well, and a little ironic that making the bike more relaxed allowed my to use a more aggressive riding position.

I also have mine flipped for looks. With that said, I have a Diverge with the Future Shock, so it’s very easy for me to change my stem height around. So when I flipped my stem, I also raised it by about an inch. Very similar riding position, but IMO looks better.

 

[rudge66]

Yours is a lesson in strength and flexibilty.
Everyone has their own limits, and trick is to finding what works well for you.
You’ve found a better fit for yourself, thats great.
There are many who are just as comfortable with a very low angle, because their body allows it,QU
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BRAVO 👏 Nicely stated .
As your core develops strength, your body gains flexibility and it’s only natural to tweak the fit ;
Gradually remove the maxed spacers and flipped up stem.
Nooo....not everyone can do , and yess ...many do not want to focus on training and form.
And yess again ... some may try to make a bike fit ... that they probably shouldn’t be on in the first place. Imagine that !

 

[Opus51569]

FWIW, as a Clyde with short arms and very little flexibility that I'm aware of, the stems on my bikes are all short length, "high rise" of some kind (Cigne, 35 degree + spacers). For drop bars, I find that having the tops level with the saddle works best for me. It puts the drops at about the same level as the headset (which is pretty much where a "slammed stem" would be). I can ride there for short periods of time when I need to get out of the wind for a bit or when I just want a change in position, but it's not practical for me for long distances.

"Rules" schmules... set up your bike how you need/want to find that balance between comfort and efficiency.

 

[Lombard]

As your core develops strength, your body gains flexibility..............

Wrong. Strength and flexibility are two very different things. Just because you have one does not mean you have the other.

 

[Lombard]

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