For your veiwing pleasure. Lets discuss these
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I'm not surprised by the cops. In my very few experiences with the police, they generally are familiar with enforcing a select number of laws and completely ignorant of the rest.
I think this is MA so I looked up the laws and it is within his rights, but not required to ride on the shoulder. Any camera shot which shows the shoulder looks pretty even and debris free while the traffic lanes look to be full of a lot of fast moving cars. So, there's no ground for a ticket here but is he really obeying the spirit of the law which is to keep everyone on the road safe? Every where I've lived (Wisconsin, Illinois, Louisiana, Alberta) the cyclist would deserve a ticket for not riding as close as practicable to the curb so I have no sympathy.
I think this is MA so I looked up the laws and it is within his rights, but not required to ride on the shoulder. Any camera shot which shows the shoulder looks pretty even and debris free while the traffic lanes look to be full of a lot of fast moving cars. So, there's no ground for a ticket here but is he really obeying the spirit of the law which is to keep everyone on the road safe? Every where I've lived (Wisconsin, Illinois, Louisiana, Alberta) the cyclist would deserve a ticket for not riding as close as practicable to the curb so I have no sympathy.
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The cops seemed like nice guys.
It's cyclists like that, that give other cyclist a bad name. I can't imagine what goes through a persons head that would cause them to act like that.
It's cyclists like that, that give other cyclist a bad name. I can't imagine what goes through a persons head that would cause them to act like that.
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What an excellent use of the day.
Video 1: The fella in the car was definitely acting unnecessarily. However, did the cyclist really need to take the entire lane when a broad shoulder was available? Was that road the best choice to ride on? It doesn't seem to be, but I don't know his destination.
Video 2: This is why I carry a copy of state and local statue regarding bicycle traffic law with me while riding. An officer or random person may not know the law, and citing it directly generally cuts a disagreement short. That being said, I DONT pull stunts like riding on a very high traffic highway and unnecessarily disrupt traffic. Just because you can, doesn't mean you necessarily should. Exercise common sense.
Video 2: This is why I carry a copy of state and local statue regarding bicycle traffic law with me while riding. An officer or random person may not know the law, and citing it directly generally cuts a disagreement short. That being said, I DONT pull stunts like riding on a very high traffic highway and unnecessarily disrupt traffic. Just because you can, doesn't mean you necessarily should. Exercise common sense.
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1,100 Posts
The cyclist doesn't appear to have broken any laws. The cops don't appear to know the laws they are supposed to enforce - or not.
The cyclist had a legitimate reason for riding in the lane rather than the shoulder - avoid right hooks and cars coming from right side streets/driveways, which are likely more dangerous to him than being hit from behind. The cyclist could have ridden closer to the white line, but still in the traffic lane rather than what appeared to be the middle of the traffic lane, though this would have invited cars to pass too close to him to avoid moving in to the other lane. What a mess.
I wonder what John Forester would do?
The cyclist had a legitimate reason for riding in the lane rather than the shoulder - avoid right hooks and cars coming from right side streets/driveways, which are likely more dangerous to him than being hit from behind. The cyclist could have ridden closer to the white line, but still in the traffic lane rather than what appeared to be the middle of the traffic lane, though this would have invited cars to pass too close to him to avoid moving in to the other lane. What a mess.
I wonder what John Forester would do?
It's all about rules, and where there are none.
I live in rural Québec and here, you dare not ride on the roadway, it being more prudent to pull into a driveway and wait for traffic to pass rather than "hold your own". However, in Ontario, a bicycle is considered a "vehicle on the roadway" and subject to all of the rules of the road, including slow vehicles rules -- i.e. pull over to let traffic pass. In City traffic I ride a bicycle like I drive a car. I make sure I have pannier on the rear so I'm easily seen and my bike is well equipped with mirrors and other equipment that one would expect on a car.
I don't perceive the problem to be the cyclist or the policeman, but the rules established by the road authority. If the rules are clearly written as specifically dealing with bicycles then everyone knows how to act. Without those rules, you have situations like this. What are these cops going to do when I come along in a Bion-x Quest, tooling along at 50 or 60 km per hr. Are they going to give me a ticket for what???? They won't know.
I feel sorry for the cops. They're indoctrinated into the age of the motorcar and that's all their training and the law will allow them to consider. I would think that the rider in this instance is trying to make that point. These comments should be directed to the senior road authority for that jurisdiction.
I live in rural Québec and here, you dare not ride on the roadway, it being more prudent to pull into a driveway and wait for traffic to pass rather than "hold your own". However, in Ontario, a bicycle is considered a "vehicle on the roadway" and subject to all of the rules of the road, including slow vehicles rules -- i.e. pull over to let traffic pass. In City traffic I ride a bicycle like I drive a car. I make sure I have pannier on the rear so I'm easily seen and my bike is well equipped with mirrors and other equipment that one would expect on a car.
I don't perceive the problem to be the cyclist or the policeman, but the rules established by the road authority. If the rules are clearly written as specifically dealing with bicycles then everyone knows how to act. Without those rules, you have situations like this. What are these cops going to do when I come along in a Bion-x Quest, tooling along at 50 or 60 km per hr. Are they going to give me a ticket for what???? They won't know.
I feel sorry for the cops. They're indoctrinated into the age of the motorcar and that's all their training and the law will allow them to consider. I would think that the rider in this instance is trying to make that point. These comments should be directed to the senior road authority for that jurisdiction.
I think that the cops were really concerned with his safety. It is obvious that they are not (except the last one) aware of the rules of the road regarding cyclists. I am from around here and that is one of the worst rods to ride on and you have a death wish if you do. Cars drive at around 50 and no way is it safer to take the lane. There are also less traveled roads that run parallel to that road and he could ride there and be safer.I think he just gives us other riders a bad name.
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728 Posts
If that cyclist was in a car going that slow he could be ticketed for driving too slow and holding up traffic.
But he thinks that because it's legal to do what he is doing that it makes it ok.
The cops need to leave the guy alone and let nature take it's course.
He has no common sense.
He is a jerk.
But he thinks that because it's legal to do what he is doing that it makes it ok.
The cops need to leave the guy alone and let nature take it's course.
He has no common sense.
He is a jerk.
He is right about one thing. By riding in the middle of the lane, he is more visible to all drivers. There are so many times when I'm in the bike lane only to have drivers making a left or right across me because they didn't see me. But if I'm in the middle of the lane, then they'll see me.
From a safety stance, riding in the shoulder is no guarantee that it'll be safe.
However, riding in the middle of the lane on a fast and congested highway is asking for road rage to happen. This is also not a good thing.
Tough call. This particular road is just looks dangerous. I would avoid it all together if it were me. I'd probably only ride it if I'm in a pack (safety in numbers).
From a safety stance, riding in the shoulder is no guarantee that it'll be safe.
However, riding in the middle of the lane on a fast and congested highway is asking for road rage to happen. This is also not a good thing.
Tough call. This particular road is just looks dangerous. I would avoid it all together if it were me. I'd probably only ride it if I'm in a pack (safety in numbers).
The cyclist is an idiot.
From what I saw they were all idiots.
Cyclist - no reason to ride the center of the road.
Driver - inconvenienced with passing but has time to chase the idiot on the bike down and yell at him.
Cop with Porn stache - doesn't realize roads are not limited to motor vehicles.
At least we have some well spelled out bicycle laws in FL.
Florida Bicycle Laws
This is typical of videos on youtube of folks inciting situation and posting them.
From what I saw they were all idiots.
Cyclist - no reason to ride the center of the road.
Driver - inconvenienced with passing but has time to chase the idiot on the bike down and yell at him.
Cop with Porn stache - doesn't realize roads are not limited to motor vehicles.
At least we have some well spelled out bicycle laws in FL.
Florida Bicycle Laws
This is typical of videos on youtube of folks inciting situation and posting them.
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728 Posts
It's bad enough being stuck behind slow moving cars. This cyclist wants to hold up traffic that is going 20 to 30mph faster then he is. Because he is mr. right. He says to himself I am legal so I can do this. I am just like a car. Once and a while I see people like this, they are usually new cyclists that don't know any better.
If I lived there and absolutely had to ride that road I would ride the shoulder and have a flashing bright light on the front and back and just watch for cars entering the road. I never impede cars with any of my vehicles.
If I lived there and absolutely had to ride that road I would ride the shoulder and have a flashing bright light on the front and back and just watch for cars entering the road. I never impede cars with any of my vehicles.
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728 Posts
This guys name is Eli Damon. He has 83 videos on You Tube. He has dedicated his life to proving that we have a right to take up the road on our bicycles. I can understand how he might believe this but I think it's a loosing battle. I wonder if he owns a car.
There are several factors that I'm looking at here.
First of all, Eli is not an idiot. He knows exactly what he is doing. He probably obeys the rules of the road a lot more than most of us in here is. So stop calling him an idiot. (don't tell me you didnt blow most stop signs on a typical ride)
Let's analyse this a little bit more.
1) Some of you mentioned that he can get ticketed for moving slow. I'll bet if he does, then he will fight the ticket and win it in court. He is NOT in the fast left lane. He is right lane and he has a right to move slow. While he may cause a lot of inconveniences to the traffic in the right lane, but he is not causing endangerment to anyone. It is the driver's responsibility to slow down or go around the cyclist. Look on the major interstate highways with big semi trucks. Most cars are going at 80 mph while the semis are rolling at 40-50 mph max because it's either an uphill or downhill. Now, are the semis going to get ticketed because they're moving slow in the right lane? Of course not.
This is also a bully issue. Some of you are bullies and not even realize it. If this was a construction hauler or some big semi or some Bobcat crawling at this speed, then nobody would say a dam thing. They would not want to instigate anything because they know the bigger vehicle will win. But because it was a vulnerable cyclist, the bullies come out in force.
2) Statistically, almost all cyclists who get hit get hit while riding in the shoulders or bike lane or to the right side of traffic lane. While it seems some of you in here seem to be screaming for this guy to be hit so you can have your point validated, I'm afraid that Mr. Eli is more right than most of you. He is right when he said "I need to be where the drivers can see me". Eli understands this concept. Understand that most drivers' eyes are trained to identify a car profile, and they will simply see thru a cyclist. And if drivers will not see you (or rather, see thru you), then riding in the shoulder is not as safe as it appears to be. However, riding smack in the middle of a lane will catch their attention.
3) From look at the video, there are sections of road that have no shoulders! So what should Mr. Eli do in this case? Ride in the middle of the traffic lane? Or pick up his bike and walk gingerly on the right most side of the lane and pray that he won't be hit? Sorry, riding in the middle of the lane is the safest way.
4) Not sure about MA, but in CA, the laws clearly state that when there is no bike lane available, the cyclist can take up the whole lane! Yet when we do this on our Sunday ride, some drivers (luckily not a lot) still honk at us.
This tells me that these drivers are simply angry because they can't have the road all to themselves.
Honestly, a lot of the anger in here and from the drivers stem from the fact that Americans are road rage prone. I have lived in many many places on earth, from Asia to Europe, some some of the places in Asia have crazy traffic, but I can honestly say that no culture have the road rage of an American culture. When Americans get in their car, they have this sense of self-entitlement and expectations that everyone on the road should drive exactly like them, and they get into a road rage and blood boiling when they see something that they don't agree with.
In Asia, almost all drivers are conditioned to look for cyclists and mopeds (and children) zipping in and out of the road. If drivers in Asia were as road rage prone as Americans, my god, it'd be a warzone.
If Mr Eli were to get hit and killed, it would be from a raging driver who was hell bent on killing him. Mr Eli won't get hit because the driver didn't see him.
Personally, if I were Mr Eli, and knowing that this culture has a strong tendency for road rage, I would not ride that road. Too many road rage fools out there, even on RBR. I can imagine some fool out there who doesn't own a bike would not care to see the laws from Mr Eli's view. I mean even the cops don't even sympathize. That's how it is in the US: "Ride at your own risks" (Laws be damned).
First of all, Eli is not an idiot. He knows exactly what he is doing. He probably obeys the rules of the road a lot more than most of us in here is. So stop calling him an idiot. (don't tell me you didnt blow most stop signs on a typical ride)
Let's analyse this a little bit more.
1) Some of you mentioned that he can get ticketed for moving slow. I'll bet if he does, then he will fight the ticket and win it in court. He is NOT in the fast left lane. He is right lane and he has a right to move slow. While he may cause a lot of inconveniences to the traffic in the right lane, but he is not causing endangerment to anyone. It is the driver's responsibility to slow down or go around the cyclist. Look on the major interstate highways with big semi trucks. Most cars are going at 80 mph while the semis are rolling at 40-50 mph max because it's either an uphill or downhill. Now, are the semis going to get ticketed because they're moving slow in the right lane? Of course not.
This is also a bully issue. Some of you are bullies and not even realize it. If this was a construction hauler or some big semi or some Bobcat crawling at this speed, then nobody would say a dam thing. They would not want to instigate anything because they know the bigger vehicle will win. But because it was a vulnerable cyclist, the bullies come out in force.
2) Statistically, almost all cyclists who get hit get hit while riding in the shoulders or bike lane or to the right side of traffic lane. While it seems some of you in here seem to be screaming for this guy to be hit so you can have your point validated, I'm afraid that Mr. Eli is more right than most of you. He is right when he said "I need to be where the drivers can see me". Eli understands this concept. Understand that most drivers' eyes are trained to identify a car profile, and they will simply see thru a cyclist. And if drivers will not see you (or rather, see thru you), then riding in the shoulder is not as safe as it appears to be. However, riding smack in the middle of a lane will catch their attention.
3) From look at the video, there are sections of road that have no shoulders! So what should Mr. Eli do in this case? Ride in the middle of the traffic lane? Or pick up his bike and walk gingerly on the right most side of the lane and pray that he won't be hit? Sorry, riding in the middle of the lane is the safest way.
4) Not sure about MA, but in CA, the laws clearly state that when there is no bike lane available, the cyclist can take up the whole lane! Yet when we do this on our Sunday ride, some drivers (luckily not a lot) still honk at us.
This tells me that these drivers are simply angry because they can't have the road all to themselves.
Honestly, a lot of the anger in here and from the drivers stem from the fact that Americans are road rage prone. I have lived in many many places on earth, from Asia to Europe, some some of the places in Asia have crazy traffic, but I can honestly say that no culture have the road rage of an American culture. When Americans get in their car, they have this sense of self-entitlement and expectations that everyone on the road should drive exactly like them, and they get into a road rage and blood boiling when they see something that they don't agree with.
In Asia, almost all drivers are conditioned to look for cyclists and mopeds (and children) zipping in and out of the road. If drivers in Asia were as road rage prone as Americans, my god, it'd be a warzone.
If Mr Eli were to get hit and killed, it would be from a raging driver who was hell bent on killing him. Mr Eli won't get hit because the driver didn't see him.
Personally, if I were Mr Eli, and knowing that this culture has a strong tendency for road rage, I would not ride that road. Too many road rage fools out there, even on RBR. I can imagine some fool out there who doesn't own a bike would not care to see the laws from Mr Eli's view. I mean even the cops don't even sympathize. That's how it is in the US: "Ride at your own risks" (Laws be damned).
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309 Posts
How is he a jerk ? He will get a ticket for slowing down the traffic if he rides in the left lane . Is there a road sign that stated no cyclist allow ? if the answer is no , he is allow to ride on that road . If he gets hit from behind by a motor vehicle , guess who is at fault . It will not be his .
Makes sense that statistically the majority of riders who get hit are on the right side of the road or on the shoulder as that's where most cyclists ride in my experience. I get that he has a right to occupy the lane, but given the road condition and the width of the shoulder, is it really necessary to take it ? I also see that there are short sections with no shoulder...so ride on the right and get through them. I'm no expert, but I do ride 4-5K miles per year .....IMHO, I'd rather ride the shoulder and live than be legally right and dead.
There are plenty of times when a car buzzes a cyclist while the cyclist is riding in the right shoulder or bike lane. PLENTY of times and near misses, and as far as I'm concerned a "near miss" is only a tick away from a death statistic,.. however, you will never see "near misses" reported in the stats. If near misses were somehow could be reported, the stats would look a whole lot grimmer.
On the other hand, I have not come across any story, online or offline, where a cyclist is struck from behind while he was occupying the middle of the lane. It's true, most cyclists do not ride in the middle of the lane, but still, the argument that riding the shoulder is a safer option is not close to being fact at all.
Furthermore, moving in and out of the shoulder area is also a dangerous option as the drivers do not know what you want to do. Most drivers will assume/hope that you will hold your line in the shoulders and not jump out,, but this assumption/hope can turn tragically wrong if there is debris on the shoulder that causes the cyclist to jump out into the lane on the left, or maybe the drivers on the left try to squeeze the cyclist as the shoulder segment starts to disappear. A lot of guessing games can happen between the drivers and cyclist (and as a cyclist last thing you want is to play "guess which say I'm going" with a vehicle). So when faced with such guessing game, it's probably safer just to take up the whole lane and thereby force every vehicles behind you to go around you.
And not all shoulders are clean. Where I live, in Socal, most of the road shoulders around here have cars parked in them. I can't simply jump in and out of road shoulders in this fashion without risking getting hit. In such scenario, either take up the whole road... or if you can't stand the honking and harassment, then get off the road all together (I avoid such roads at all cost).
But yes, the drivers get frustrated, go into a road rage cursing the cyclist. And sadly I suspect some ahole will run him over intentionally when nobody is watching... but understand that this issue is not an issue of not obey the laws, it is now a societal issue, an issue involving road rage and intolerance.
Do you guys curse at the semi trucks when you thought they merge into your lane and squeeze you over more than you would like? Luckily, most truck drivers have the patience to yield (probably because their livelihood depend on them not getting into an accident). Car drivers should have the same spirit as most semi drivers, i.e., yield to the smaller vehicles. But I'm prolly preaching to the choir here.
But me, nah, I wouldn't ride such road. Too many road ragers out there. I'll bet most of the aholes who call Mr Eli for not having common sense probably speed 90% of the time they're on that road. Oh the humanity.
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