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Discussion Starter · #42 ·
charlox5 said:
What creeps me out about GRRM is his penchant for sexualizing 14 year olds..
Well, I must admit to having a bit of a crush on Arya. :blush2:

Well, this thread certainly took a hard left turn...
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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
Saw the Season2 finale. Quite good.

They finally moved the chains pretty far forward on the Daenerys and Jon Snow subplots, and everything else seemed to work as well.

S3's only nine months away. Whee. :(
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Discussion Starter · #44 ·
I'm good with this too. The occasional battle scene is good, like this last week's episode, but I mean, still, it was only a very brief, narrowly focused look at one part of the battle, and then, bam, Tywin and his men riode in, "the battles over, we've won" and that's it.
Huh? Battle scenes took up most of the episode.
Some of them were suspense/talking/anticipation, but still.

And they BLEW UP HALF OF STANNIS' FLEET! C'mon. :p

For me, the joy in Game of Thrones is the dialogue. Take the episode a couple weeks ago, where practically nothing happened. But oooooh, what great scenes we had, with actors just chewing great dialogue. Every scene with Jon Snow and the wildling girl, Tywin and Arya, and best of all, the Kingslayer and his cousin in the cage. It's like The Wire in that way. Smart, literate, you have to pay attention to follow along and understand what's going on.

And there's always a great quotable line or two in every episode. "Those are brave men knocking at our door. Let's go kill them!!!!" Or, see my sig line.
I loves me some dialogue. That said, in a fantasy-themed TV series or film, every once in awhile one must kick some epic arse.

The showrunners appear to agree... they've said they really really wanted to actually *show* The Battle of Blackwater, rather than just talk about it, and they scrimped and saved to have the money to do so, and STILL had to go back to HBO and beg for some more:

David [Benioff]: For the second season, we knew that we really wanted to show the Battle of the Blackwater—a version of the battle, we couldn’t do it exactly as it is in the books because it would have meant months of shooting time and $50 million we didn’t have—but we wanted to show a battle rather than do another off-screen one.

Sometimes we’ll be forced to do that, but in this season it all really builds toward the Battle of the Blackwater and so many of the storylines coalesce around that battle, so to do it all offscreen or have Lancel Lannister reporting to Cersei in Maegor’s Holdfast about what’s going on outside without showing it was something we didn’t want.

So we tried to protect it, meaning that we preserved time in the schedule for it and to preserve enough dollars for it… and also to go back to HBO to beg for more money because we realized we didn’t have enough to do it. And even the version we had wasn’t as grand as in the books.

Dan ['DB' Weiss]: HBO was very generous when we held out our hats.



It's a very good interview, btw:

http://www.westeros.org/GoT/Features/Entry/Interview_with_David_Benioff_and_Dan_Weiss
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It appears that next season we can merge the Game of Thrones and Walking Dead threads.
 

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oh hai, GoT lovers (and others); some clarification. A good friend and drinking buddy of ours just happens to be GRRM's niece and personal assistant. When she's in Boulder hanging out with the Chaos clan, and not in Santa Fe running herd on her uncle, we get some insights. Things like:

-- HBO was going to cut the big "epic" Battle of the Blackwater entirely in S2, leaving it all to exposition / offscreen, and just have a small fight scene at the Mud Gate. Reason? $$$$. You simply cannot compare the budget for a FEATURE LENGTH MOVIE (LoTR) to a single TV show episode. You just can't. Fortunately the producer (same guy btw who did armor and costume / character art for LoTR) said "you simply cannot get away with that, you HAVE to have a naval battle, it's what hinges the plot, etc or else the readers and critics alike will effing crucify you" -- so HBO caved in and gave them an INSANE amount of budget for just those five minutes of film. I wonder how many armchair producers out there actually understand how freaking expensive it is to shoot (of all things) a NAVAL battle on film. it's OMGWTFBBQ expensive, that's what. There's a reason nobody in Hollywood ever wants to do it. So ok yea they cut it down from like 30 hulks filled with wildfire to just one, and skipped the chain boom and a lot of other things, but by buddha, we got our naval battle scene, with some freaky big assplosions, probably over the dead bodies of a fair number of Hollywood bean counters, btw.

-- GRRM himself is not actually a paedophile, pederast, or whatever else you're thinking. I've met him in person, he's a pretty normal mild mannered beardy pedantic beer drinking dude who likes to fiddle around in the garden and has a couple of cats and a really cool wife who's also an artist. Thing is, the guy is highly educated in medieval history, which is where you get all the marriages and fooling around and suchlike between tweens. Those 14th century folk married their girl kids off ultra, ultra young - a noble daughter was a liability the longer she remained unmarried, as her only value was in her "purity" (nttawwt) hence she had to be essentially sold off before she was "spoiled"; otherwise she was shipped off to a convent. That was a basic fact, and they didn't view it as creepy; it was purely good sense. And in fact, GRRM worked with the HBO crew to intentionally "age" the child characters out by several years in some cases just so the modern sensibilities of the viewers weren't squicked out by this. You see it in Sansa's scenes - a girl was considered marriagable the moment she "flowered" (had her first period), which happens generally between the ages of 11 to 13. Ew, right? Well yea, but they didn't have the Pill back in the day, so they had to get her knocked up by a legitimately wealthy husband before the baker's boy got at her.

-- GoT itself is generally based on the War of the Roses, with a little bit of dragons-and-zombies-oh-my thrown in for spice. That's deliberate. GRRM wanted to base the skeleton of his plot on something realistic, and so you'll see quite a few similarities between the Lannisters (in GoT) and the Lancasters (War of the Roses), the Starks (GoT) vs. the Yorks (WotR) and so on. Later on as the series continues if you're well versed in theological history, you'll also see some parallel references to some of the more militant Christian sects (no spoilers) and Middle Eastern religious cults as well.

-- GRRM wrote GoT in part as a mental break to get AWAY from the limitations of screenwriting. He has frequently gone on record saying it is "unfilmable" in its raw state, as he never actually intended it to become a screenplay, much less a TV series. That it is, is a testament to his skill. He does much of the backstage script consulting, and has committed to writing the screenplays to at least 1 to 2 episodes per season.

-- Because of this, A Game of Thrones (the TV series) and A Song of Ice and Fire (the book series) will have to diverge somewhat in structure, pacing, content, etc. This is intentional, and GRRM is probably the best person to manage it gracefully, seeing as his first and most successful career is as a screenwriter for series TV romance / fiction. Central plots and themes will remain, and I highly doubt you'll see characters survive that were killed off in the books, etc. (meaning, nothing major will change) but in the end the 2 will have to be separate stand alone entities, owing to the limitations of series TV media, the psychology of subjecting viewers to such a convoluted set of plot/characters, budgets, etc. You've already seen this in small ways with things like Roose Bolton being substituted for Tywin Lannister at Harrenhal, Asha Greyjoy's name being changed to Yara (to avoid confusion with Osha the Wilding), etc.

last and most interestingly, our friend Raya (George's niece) has long suspected that Arya is an anagram of her own name. The character definitely fits. She is a fairly successful artist and comic book illustrator IRL, besides PAing for her uncle as a day job.

The More You Know (TM)
 
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-- GRRM himself is not actually a paedophile, pederast, or whatever else you're thinking. I've met him in person, he's a pretty normal mild mannered beardy pedantic beer drinking dude who likes to fiddle around in the garden and has a couple of cats and a really cool wife who's also an artist.
I'd have been more interested in name dropping stories if they included you using the opportunity (upon meeting GRRM) to jolt him in the kidney with a tazer and telling him to get a move on with the books....
 

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oh hai, GoT lovers (and others); some clarification. A good friend and drinking buddy of ours just happens to be GRRM's niece and personal assistant. When she's in Boulder hanging out with the Chaos clan, and not in Santa Fe running herd on her uncle, we get some insights. Things like:

-- HBO was going to cut the big "epic" Battle of the Blackwater entirely in S2, leaving it all to exposition / offscreen, and just have a small fight scene at the Mud Gate. Reason? $$$$. You simply cannot compare the budget for a FEATURE LENGTH MOVIE (LoTR) to a single TV show episode. You just can't. Fortunately the producer (same guy btw who did armor and costume / character art for LoTR) said "you simply cannot get away with that, you HAVE to have a naval battle, it's what hinges the plot, etc or else the readers and critics alike will effing crucify you" -- so HBO caved in and gave them an INSANE amount of budget for just those five minutes of film. I wonder how many armchair producers out there actually understand how freaking expensive it is to shoot (of all things) a NAVAL battle on film. it's OMGWTFBBQ expensive, that's what. There's a reason nobody in Hollywood ever wants to do it. So ok yea they cut it down from like 30 hulks filled with wildfire to just one, and skipped the chain boom and a lot of other things, but by buddha, we got our naval battle scene, with some freaky big assplosions, probably over the dead bodies of a fair number of Hollywood bean counters, btw.

-- GRRM himself is not actually a paedophile, pederast, or whatever else you're thinking. I've met him in person, he's a pretty normal mild mannered beardy pedantic beer drinking dude who likes to fiddle around in the garden and has a couple of cats and a really cool wife who's also an artist. Thing is, the guy is highly educated in medieval history, which is where you get all the marriages and fooling around and suchlike between tweens. Those 14th century folk married their girl kids off ultra, ultra young - a noble daughter was a liability the longer she remained unmarried, as her only value was in her "purity" (nttawwt) hence she had to be essentially sold off before she was "spoiled"; otherwise she was shipped off to a convent. That was a basic fact, and they didn't view it as creepy; it was purely good sense. And in fact, GRRM worked with the HBO crew to intentionally "age" the child characters out by several years in some cases just so the modern sensibilities of the viewers weren't squicked out by this. You see it in Sansa's scenes - a girl was considered marriagable the moment she "flowered" (had her first period), which happens generally between the ages of 11 to 13. Ew, right? Well yea, but they didn't have the Pill back in the day, so they had to get her knocked up by a legitimately wealthy husband before the baker's boy got at her.

-- GoT itself is generally based on the War of the Roses, with a little bit of dragons-and-zombies-oh-my thrown in for spice. That's deliberate. GRRM wanted to base the skeleton of his plot on something realistic, and so you'll see quite a few similarities between the Lannisters (in GoT) and the Lancasters (War of the Roses), the Starks (GoT) vs. the Yorks (WotR) and so on. Later on as the series continues if you're well versed in theological history, you'll also see some parallel references to some of the more militant Christian sects (no spoilers) and Middle Eastern religious cults as well.

-- GRRM wrote GoT in part as a mental break to get AWAY from the limitations of screenwriting. He has frequently gone on record saying it is "unfilmable" in its raw state, as he never actually intended it to become a screenplay, much less a TV series. That it is, is a testament to his skill. He does much of the backstage script consulting, and has committed to writing the screenplays to at least 1 to 2 episodes per season.

-- Because of this, A Game of Thrones (the TV series) and A Song of Ice and Fire (the book series) will have to diverge somewhat in structure, pacing, content, etc. This is intentional, and GRRM is probably the best person to manage it gracefully, seeing as his first and most successful career is as a screenwriter for series TV romance / fiction. Central plots and themes will remain, and I highly doubt you'll see characters survive that were killed off in the books, etc. (meaning, nothing major will change) but in the end the 2 will have to be separate stand alone entities, owing to the limitations of series TV media, the psychology of subjecting viewers to such a convoluted set of plot/characters, budgets, etc. You've already seen this in small ways with things like Roose Bolton being substituted for Tywin Lannister at Harrenhal, Asha Greyjoy's name being changed to Yara (to avoid confusion with Osha the Wilding), etc.

last and most interestingly, our friend Raya (George's niece) has long suspected that Arya is an anagram of her own name. The character definitely fits. She is a fairly successful artist and comic book illustrator IRL, besides PAing for her uncle as a day job.

The More You Know (TM)
Very cool insider info.

for the record i never meant to imply that GRRM was a pedophile, more of a joke to make light of how book jacket pictures never look right :p

for what it's worth i've enjoyed the books immensely, but as long as you've got access, tell him to hurry the hell up with book 6 :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
It appears that next season we can merge the Game of Thrones and Walking Dead threads.
Doubtful. Ppl on RBR actually like AGOT, whereas The Walking Dead exists to be nitpicked and denigrated by ppl in a voice resembling that of Comic Shop Guy:

"Worst. episode. EVER."

(Said of every episode of TWD, yet everyone here keeps watching it. Go figure).
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Discussion Starter · #51 · (Edited)
Awesome post, and rep'd. :thumbsup:

/did I mention awesome post is awesome?


oh hai, GoT lovers (and others); some clarification. A good friend and drinking buddy of ours just happens to be GRRM's niece and personal assistant. When she's in Boulder hanging out with the Chaos clan, and not in Santa Fe running herd on her uncle, we get some insights. Things like:

-- HBO was going to cut the big "epic" Battle of the Blackwater entirely in S2, leaving it all to exposition / offscreen, and just have a small fight scene at the Mud Gate. Reason? $$$$. You simply cannot compare the budget for a FEATURE LENGTH MOVIE (LoTR) to a single TV show episode. You just can't. Fortunately the producer (same guy btw who did armor and costume / character art for LoTR) said "you simply cannot get away with that, you HAVE to have a naval battle, it's what hinges the plot, etc or else the readers and critics alike will effing crucify you" -- so HBO caved in and gave them an INSANE amount of budget for just those five minutes of film. I wonder how many armchair producers out there actually understand how freaking expensive it is to shoot (of all things) a NAVAL battle on film. it's OMGWTFBBQ expensive, that's what. There's a reason nobody in Hollywood ever wants to do it. So ok yea they cut it down from like 30 hulks filled with wildfire to just one, and skipped the chain boom and a lot of other things, but by buddha, we got our naval battle scene, with some freaky big assplosions, probably over the dead bodies of a fair number of Hollywood bean counters, btw.

-- GRRM himself is not actually a paedophile, pederast, or whatever else you're thinking. I've met him in person, he's a pretty normal mild mannered beardy pedantic beer drinking dude who likes to fiddle around in the garden and has a couple of cats and a really cool wife who's also an artist. Thing is, the guy is highly educated in medieval history, which is where you get all the marriages and fooling around and suchlike between tweens. Those 14th century folk married their girl kids off ultra, ultra young - a noble daughter was a liability the longer she remained unmarried, as her only value was in her "purity" (nttawwt) hence she had to be essentially sold off before she was "spoiled"; otherwise she was shipped off to a convent. That was a basic fact, and they didn't view it as creepy; it was purely good sense. And in fact, GRRM worked with the HBO crew to intentionally "age" the child characters out by several years in some cases just so the modern sensibilities of the viewers weren't squicked out by this. You see it in Sansa's scenes - a girl was considered marriagable the moment she "flowered" (had her first period), which happens generally between the ages of 11 to 13. Ew, right? Well yea, but they didn't have the Pill back in the day, so they had to get her knocked up by a legitimately wealthy husband before the baker's boy got at her.

-- GoT itself is generally based on the War of the Roses, with a little bit of dragons-and-zombies-oh-my thrown in for spice. That's deliberate. GRRM wanted to base the skeleton of his plot on something realistic, and so you'll see quite a few similarities between the Lannisters (in GoT) and the Lancasters (War of the Roses), the Starks (GoT) vs. the Yorks (WotR) and so on. Later on as the series continues if you're well versed in theological history, you'll also see some parallel references to some of the more militant Christian sects (no spoilers) and Middle Eastern religious cults as well.

-- GRRM wrote GoT in part as a mental break to get AWAY from the limitations of screenwriting. He has frequently gone on record saying it is "unfilmable" in its raw state, as he never actually intended it to become a screenplay, much less a TV series. That it is, is a testament to his skill. He does much of the backstage script consulting, and has committed to writing the screenplays to at least 1 to 2 episodes per season.

-- Because of this, A Game of Thrones (the TV series) and A Song of Ice and Fire (the book series) will have to diverge somewhat in structure, pacing, content, etc. This is intentional, and GRRM is probably the best person to manage it gracefully, seeing as his first and most successful career is as a screenwriter for series TV romance / fiction. Central plots and themes will remain, and I highly doubt you'll see characters survive that were killed off in the books, etc. (meaning, nothing major will change) but in the end the 2 will have to be separate stand alone entities, owing to the limitations of series TV media, the psychology of subjecting viewers to such a convoluted set of plot/characters, budgets, etc. You've already seen this in small ways with things like Roose Bolton being substituted for Tywin Lannister at Harrenhal, Asha Greyjoy's name being changed to Yara (to avoid confusion with Osha the Wilding), etc.

last and most interestingly, our friend Raya (George's niece) has long suspected that Arya is an anagram of her own name. The character definitely fits. She is a fairly successful artist and comic book illustrator IRL, besides PAing for her uncle as a day job.

The More You Know (TM)
 

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chica cyclista
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I'd have been more interested in name dropping stories if they included you using the opportunity (upon meeting GRRM) to jolt him in the kidney with a tazer and telling him to get a move on with the books....
er, the absolute last thing I would ever do is hassle GRRM about something as trivial as book release timing. I mean, you may have been kidding but your tone does not indicate it. do you honestly have any clue how much of that runny shite he has to put up with from the Internet Dork Squad?

another favorite fantasy author of mine (Patrick Rothfuss) made a germane and witty comic a couple of years ago about how dealing with all the hateful email asshattery under the subject line "d00d srsly your such a f'n slacker make with the writing already lolz!!111" makes him want to kick puppies, but I can't seem to pinpoint it on his blog. Rest assured it was swearily hilarious and to the point.

you know what, nevermind. we plan to take the Martins some Avery beer next time we visit the Santa Fe branch of the Chaos clan this coming October. It's the least I can do to make up for all the BS they get to put up with from the general public now that GRRM has become relatively famous.

//edit - did not find the Rothfuss comic but instead will refer you to Neil Gaiman's awesome, pertinent blog post on the topic of Reader Entitlement Issues.
 

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er, the absolute last thing I would ever do is hassle GRRM about something as trivial as book release timing. I mean, you may have been kidding but your tone does not indicate it. do you honestly have any clue how much of that runny shite he has to put up with from the Internet Dork Squad?

//edit - did not find the Rothfuss comic but instead will refer you to Neil Gaiman's awesome, pertinent blog post on the topic of Reader Entitlement Issues.
Yes, I seriously thought you should tazer the guy in the kidney...:rolleyes:

Actually, I've read Gaiman's take on it and I agree with him. Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking it up to post the link. That said, 15+ years after reading the first one, I am looking forward to him getting around to the end.
 

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chica cyclista
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better get a crib sheet of characters.
and a black marker to cross them off. it gets confusing.
funny you should mention that, there's some Spanish guy from one of the Westeros boards who apparently has compiled an exhaustively researched wiki/db/glossary of ASoIaF characters, relationships, terminology/language, place names, maps, etcetera and it seems GRRM now uses it as a resource himself rather than his own notes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #55 ·
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 · (Edited)
Season 3 in T-minus two days, and counting.... :yesnod:








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Discussion Starter · #59 ·
Yes, I seriously thought you should tazer the guy in the kidney...:rolleyes:

Actually, I've read Gaiman's take on it and I agree with him. Thanks for saving me the trouble of looking it up to post the link.

That said, 15+ years after reading the first one, I am looking forward to him getting around to the end.
To be fair, the series will be, what, 6,000 to 7,000 pages or so by the time it's completed? :eek6: And it's pretty supremely complicated on top of that? I can't imagine how hard it'd be to write the ASOIAF series.

I think it's also been said that the Game of Thrones TV show could get 9 or 10 seasons of material out of the books, i.e. 80 hours of actual run-time.

What did that slacker Tolkein ever do? LOTR was only like 1,500 pages, zomg!!

(yes, that's me joking. I dig Tolkein.)
 

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Oh boy,

Mini GOT party here.. Snacks, Booze, Couch, Friends..
Yep we're nurds over here & we lv it)

Let's see who gets dead first out the blocks..
 
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