[eflayer2]

Hello All,

Does anyone know what type of integrated headset these bikes take?

1.Is it the kind where the bearings drop into the headtube with no presssed in cups?

2. Or is it the kind where tiny cups are pressed in and then the bearings go in?

3. What actual model of the FSA is it?

4. Is it compatible with a model from Cane Creek?

5. Some of these come with a conical sort of spacer piece that goes between the headset and the stem. Are these conical things available in different heights/dimensions?

Thanks for any help.

 

[C-40]

drop-in...

Hello All,

Does anyone know what type of integrated headset these bikes take?

1.Is it the kind where the bearings drop into the headtube with no presssed in cups?

2. Or is it the kind where tiny cups are pressed in and then the bearings go in?

3. What actual model of the FSA is it?

4. Is it compatible with a model from Cane Creek?

5. Some of these come with a conical sort of spacer piece that goes between the headset and the stem. Are these conical things available in different heights/dimensions?

Thanks for any help.

As I remember, Giant uses the cane creek standard, that drop in. To be absolutely sure of the standard you should measure the bearing OD. FSA makes both cane creek and campy standard headsets, the two are not the same.

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=product&taxid=34

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68

To answer question 5., you're talking about the bearing seats in the head tube. Some brands have removeable seats (like LOOK) and some don't. A Giant dealer should know, or you can tell by looking at the seats. If they're split, then they can be removed and replaced. If they aren't split, then they are probably considered to be permanent. The permanent kind can be remachined if they become damaged, but finding a shop with the tools might be tough.

 

[eflayer2]

regarding question number 5, I am not speaking of anything internal, but a cone shaped spacer about 2cm tall that goes above the top bearing and before you put on regual spacers. It creates a nice smooth transition between the top of the headtube going up to the stem. I think both fsa and cane creek sell full headset with these in different sizes as well as the cone shaped things separately.

http://www.fullspeedahead.com/fly.aspx?layout=estore&taxid=228&pid=296

 

[mtbbmet]

Giant HS's have the slide in cups for the bearings to sit on. I would not call them "press in" as you can install and remove them by hand.
As for the conical HS cap. One size. But I was unaware that any Giant has this. The only HS I have seen like this is the FSA Orbit IS Carbon. Not something you would find on a stock bike.

 

[C-40]

misread that...

I misread that question. The answer is that there are usually only two sizes, a short one and the tall one that you linked. The short version is usually in the 5-8mm range. All brands offer short and tall top sections, but maybe not separately as replacement items.

http://www.canecreek.com/is-6.html

 

[eflayer2]

My understanding is that Giant DOES NOT have any cups that press in.

The bearings literally sit inside the machined metal inside the headtube and these machined metal surfaces are not replaceable.

True?

 

[mtbbmet]

No, there is a very thin metal spacer that slides into the headtube. The bearings sit on that. The bearings do not have direct contact with the frame.

 

[C-40]

I think you're guessing...

All of the major types are shown on the park tool site, previously linked. I don't know of any that use any sort of thin "spacer" as you call it. Internal types have press-in cups with a lip at the top. Integrated type cartridge bearings all ride directly on a 45 or 36 degree angled bearing seat. This seat may be removeable but I've never seen any "slip-in" version, unless you're calling a split 45 degree seat, a slip-in.

My money's on the Cane Creek standard integrated, the same used by LOOK and many others.

http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=68

 

[eflayer2]

I now believe that the Giant OCR has no mechanically pressed in cups. But when installing the proper integrated headset, one does put a thin split-ring spacer in the headtube first and then the bearing is dropped in on top of that.

Both FSA and Cane Creek makes these headset to the word wide Cane Creek standard. On the other hand I was interested in a wider top cap and both companies offer full headsets with wider top caps and both make wide top caps available separately from their web stores. Top caps from each company supposedly are not interchangeable.

I was interested in a wider top cap because I want my bars up high and the conical top caps create a smooth transition up the steerer when mated with a couple or regular-type headset spacers.

 

[mtbbmet]

No, not guessing.
I have personally installed about 2 dozen of these headsets in Giant frames.
And from the site that you linked to you can get this....

"The frame below uses pressed inserts or rings for the angular contact. Notice the split in the ring. These press in with only hand pressure against the machined relief in the frame."

That is not too different than what I said before....

"Giant HS's have the slide in cups for the bearings to sit on. I would not call them "press in" as you can install and remove them by hand."

 

[eflayer2]

Not starting a fight but would like to nail this down.

So which one of the following describes the headset type in a Giant OCR Composite frame?

Thanks,
Eddie

"Low Profile", "Zero Stack", "Intergrated with Cups", "Internal Headset", "Semi-Intergrated" types

This type of headset system has, unfortunately, several names. Cane Creek® uses ZS or Zero Stack, while FSA® uses the Orbit Z series. The low-profile, zero-stack, integrated-with-cups, semi-intergrated, or internal-headset systems use pressed frame cups that act as a holder for the bearings. The cups have a flange, or lip, and sit adjacent to the outer edge of the top and bottom of the headtube. The headtube is a relatively large outside diameter, approximately 50mm, and cups allow the bearings to sit flush or even inside the headtube. The headset bearings sit "internally" to the top and bottom of the headtube. Some models use a cup that holds a cartridge bearing. The cartridge bearing is a slip fit into the cups. The cups act as a bearing holder and do not take bearing movement or wear directly. Other types have the cartridge bearing and cup/holder as a unit. These are simply replaced as a unit when it is worn out. Still another version of this type uses a cup and cone system with caged ball bearings, similar to the conventional threadless headsets. Additionally, the depth of insertion into the headtube will vary between brands and type. If the bike was designed for a shallow cup, a deeper cup will not properly fit. This lack of consensus in depth makes reaming the inside of the headtube problematic.

or this:

Integrated- Angular Contact System (without cups)

The integrated system uses cartridge bearings that are supported by machining in a specially shaped head tube. The frame may also use pressed rings or retainers inside the headtube. A cartridge bearing slips into these "cups" or supports, and is simply lifted out for replacement. There is no contact with the headtube face. The bearing sits inside the headtube, and references the angular contact. There are different standards within this integrated-angular contact family, and these are not interchangeable. A table at the end of this article summarizes the various standards.

The "IS" system is considered the most common. The name Integrated System is not a registered trade name. The system uses the 45-degree bearing contact in the frame. The bearings for the 1-1/8 inch steering columns use a 41mm outside diameter with a 45-degree bearing contact in the frame. The bearing may be marked "36-45". The first number refers to the inside bearing contact with the headset race or centering cone. The second number refers to the frame contact.

The less common 36-degree angular contact standard uses a bearing for the 1-1/8 inch steering columns with a 41.5mm outside diameter. The bearings may be marked "36-36".

 

[mtbbmet]

Integrated angular contact, but you need the frame inserts. These come with the frame, not the headset. Although all Giant frames are shipped with headsets. So if this whole thing started because you're ordering a frame and need to get a HS for it, don't. It comes with one.

 

[eflayer2]

this whole thing started because...

1. I am getting a new frameset and wanted to know as much as possible about the headset and the parts that come with it.

2. Wanted to know the best way to get my bars as high as possible and saw some headsets with wider/taller top covers.

3. Wanted to know which model headset the frame came with so I could figure out if a wider/taller top cover was available for it as an aftermarket purchase.

The frameset is supposed to arrive today and inspection along with your responses will reveal all the answers.

Do you have an opinion or experience with OCR Composite frames? Are they any good?

 

[DIRT BOY]

GIANT frames use Internal HS aka Cane Creek ZS or FSA ORBIT Z!

 

[mtbbmet]

Actually they use IS-2's, or the Orbit IS.
You may want to have another look at you Giant.
Internal, and integrated are not the same thing.
The FSA that comes stock with the frame set is the Orbit IS

 

[DIRT BOY]

Every frame I see listed use the ZS or Internal HS.

Just take a look at my site at all the GIANT TCR and OCR bikes.
I also contacted someone I know who has one, ZS

 

[wasfast]

2. Wanted to know the best way to get my bars as high as possible and saw some headsets with wider/taller top covers.

The top cover doesn't have anything to do with how tall the bars are. The amount of spacers under the stem determine the height of the stem. The topcap is there to provide some compression to keep the headset under preload. Tall or short cap won't change the bar height.

 

[wasfast]

I have a 2004 TCR Composite frame. The headset that came with it is closest to the FSA Orbit IS. Giant provides their own carbon cap which is junk actually. The FSA is much nicer looking and stronger since it's not flat but cup shaped.

 

[mtbbmet]

Strange, cause even Giant's site states Integrated, not internal.
And my TCX that is 5 feet away clearly has an Orbit IS.

 

[DIRT BOY]

Huh? The top camps can be flatish, 8, 10 or 15mm high and will require less spacers.