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Dr. Flats a lot
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The reality is that the UCI lost total control of the peloton, you had to dope to compete, not just to win. Rather than go after the individuals for doping we should be recognizing the guilty party are the ones who were in charge of this mess. Taking pay-off's just adds insult to injury.
They are incapable of leading this sport, and they need to go.
 

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Still waiting......
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Who do you suggest replaces them? How do you ensure they won't be just as bad or worse than what is in place now?
 

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Fly on a windshield
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The reality is that the UCI lost total control of the peloton, you had to dope to compete, not just to win. Rather than go after the individuals for doping we should be recognizing the guilty party are the ones who were in charge of this mess. Taking pay-off's just adds insult to injury.
They are incapable of leading this sport, and they need to go.
The UCI is no more or less guilty than any other sports federation protecting its interests. How many times do you think the NFL has looked the other way when its star athletes were implicated in some hanky panky? What about Tennis? Soccer?Do you remember Puerto? We heard so much about the evil in cycling, yet all these other sports walked away clean.
 

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Still waiting......
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The UCI is no more or less guilty than any other sports federation protecting its interests. How many times do you think the NFL has looked the other way when its star athletes were implicated in some hanky panky? What about Tennis? Soccer?Do you remember Puerto? We heard so much about the evil in cycling, yet all these other sports walked away clean.
MLB is right up near the top of this list. Bud Selig embraced (and probably encouraged) the steroid era as the chase to break the home run record helped fans forget about the strike. Many years later, Bud's still the commissioner, and the game is thriving.

Again I'd like to hear what ideas the OP has to replace the UCI. The riders self-police themselves? Who are you going to bring in that has the experience to run the show that wasn't involved in or complicit in creating the current problems? I'm interested to hear anyone's ideas as I can't think of anything.
 

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I think the biggest change that should be made is how teams themselves are held responsible for cheating teammates. In my opinion, if any rider at all on a team is found guilty of cheating, this is what should happen:

The team director, managers, riders who rode with the cheater during the event, and sponsors are punished in that order, with the team director receiving the biggest punishment aside from the actual cheater. They're all fined depending on how major the PED was. The teammates who rode with the cheater during the event lose all results for that event. Any and all of the above people will receive the same or similiar duration ban from the sport as the cheater if it can be proved he or she knew or suspected the teammate was cheating. This includes e-mails, testimony, text messages, recorded phone calls, etc.

If you're on a team with cheaters but don't say anything, you should be part of the problem now. Report it, quit, or risk your career over others cheating. Draw a line in the sand, and from that point forward even if you cheated before, you may come clean and implicate others without punishment. The UCI should encourage teammates to report cheaters, and offer as much protection for those coming forward about others cheating as possible. Anyone who has reported teammates in the past and feels they are being descriminated or blacklisted from other teams should be able to report it to the UCI and, if proven true, the offending parties should literally receive bans from the sport. If you want to blacklist someone over ratting out a cheater, good bye you and your team is worthless. GTFO.
 

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Bottom line there is a huge mess in cycling. Of course only the UCI really has the authority with really no one higher or second in line to take over. I'm not sure who exactly can take the UCI to CAS either.

Biggest solution is massive reform, but that's going to be quite the job to execute coming from the above problems I mentioned. You might be trying to write over history depending on how deep drug use has been (which supposedly goes all the way back to Merckx at least).
 

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The next time a cyclists gets caught cheating, the whole sport should end. The bicycle should be banned from all forms of competition. [sarcasm]

Cyclists are getting caught for doping because they participate in one of the only sports that is making a real effort to catch them, possibly to it's own detriment.

Listen to yourselves...
 

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Dr. Flats a lot
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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
All joking aside the UCI is really treading on thin ice. The current rumor in the peloton is that they threatened Vaughters with charging his team for the biological passport program unless he gave up on his efforts to create an alternative cycling league.
Between Verbruggen's laughable declaration that land "never, never, never" used doping products, and their responses to Landis and Hamilton there seems to be more investment in saving face than a meaningful soul searching to what their role was in the doping that plagued the sport.
Not to at all imply that doping does not occur now, it clearly does. But it does at least appear that these are the outliers.
One issue that has not been addressed is how the UCI fosters an environment that promotes doping. Consider that most professional marathoners will do maybe 4 event a year. Then consider that most pro level riders will do about 80 race days. The seasons get extended farther and farther. Racing now starts in January and can extend all the way to November. Teams and racers are required to go to these races. Consider the physiological demands placed on riders during grand tour. By the end of the race they will lose 10-20 kg catabolically. Hemoglobins plummet to anemic levels. With inadequate time to recover, doping becomes one way to keep going. The UCI continues to push on the gas, expanding the schedule with little consideration to the demands on riders.
Rarely are classics riders embroiled in doping, it's generally the GC riders.
It's hard to imagine a world without the UCI. Between the olympics, WADA etc... they need to exist. But there is the real possibility of an alternative cycling league of pro tour teams.
 

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For president!
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One issue that has not been addressed is how the UCI fosters an environment that promotes doping. Consider that most professional marathoners will do maybe 4 event a year. Then consider that most pro level riders will do about 80 race days. The seasons get extended farther and farther. Racing now starts in January and can extend all the way to November. Teams and racers are required to go to these races. Consider the physiological demands placed on riders during grand tour. By the end of the race they will lose 10-20 kg catabolically. Hemoglobins plummet to anemic levels. With inadequate time to recover, doping becomes one way to keep going. The UCI continues to push on the gas, expanding the schedule with little consideration to the demands on riders.
This is hogwash. Guys were doing much more demanding schedules 50 years ago, on bread, water and some amphetamines. Now you need a pharmacy to race 50 days a year? As for losing 10-20kg over the course of a GT, I think I'll need some evidence to buy that claim. More likely 1-2kg, if anything.

Doping is for winning...
 

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For president!
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The next time a cyclists gets caught cheating, the whole sport should end. The bicycle should be banned from all forms of competition. [sarcasm]

Cyclists are getting caught for doping because they participate in one of the only sports that is making a real effort to catch them, possibly to it's own detriment.

Listen to yourselves...
The UCI is out to get the riders? Did you read anything about this Tour de Suisse nonsense?

It's pretty clear that the UCI was not like MLB, who turned a blind eye to their drug problem. It appears the UCI was complicit in doping.
 

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Still waiting......
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All joking aside the UCI is really treading on thin ice. The current rumor in the peloton is that they threatened Vaughters with charging his team for the biological passport program unless he gave up on his efforts to create an alternative cycling league.
Between Verbruggen's laughable declaration that land "never, never, never" used doping products, and their responses to Landis and Hamilton there seems to be more investment in saving face than a meaningful soul searching to what their role was in the doping that plagued the sport.
Not to at all imply that doping does not occur now, it clearly does. But it does at least appear that these are the outliers.
One issue that has not been addressed is how the UCI fosters an environment that promotes doping. Consider that most professional marathoners will do maybe 4 event a year. Then consider that most pro level riders will do about 80 race days. The seasons get extended farther and farther. Racing now starts in January and can extend all the way to November. Teams and racers are required to go to these races. Consider the physiological demands placed on riders during grand tour. By the end of the race they will lose 10-20 kg catabolically. Hemoglobins plummet to anemic levels. With inadequate time to recover, doping becomes one way to keep going. The UCI continues to push on the gas, expanding the schedule with little consideration to the demands on riders.
Rarely are classics riders embroiled in doping, it's generally the GC riders.
It's hard to imagine a world without the UCI. Between the olympics, WADA etc... they need to exist. But there is the real possibility of an alternative cycling league of pro tour teams.
How many poorly run corporations are there out there that sacrifice workers well being in the name of profit? How many bad CEO's? How many rubberstamp board of directors? Do they all need to be shut down too? That seems to be your argument - the UCI is a poorly run, highly politicized entity that doesn't care about it's employees and therefore needs to go away.

You rage against the UCI but again offer no solutions - what does "an alternative cycling league of pro tour teams." mean? You want the cyclists and teams to run their own show and police themselves? They've proven incapable of behaving under a small amount oversight from an outside entity, so the answer is to let the loonies run the asylum?

I agree with you that the UCI stinks on so many levels, but I just can't make the leap that getting rid of them will solve anything, and no alternatives have been offered up.
 

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The UCI is out to get the riders? Did you read anything about this Tour de Suisse nonsense?

It's pretty clear that the UCI was not like MLB, who turned a blind eye to their drug problem. It appears the UCI was complicit in doping.
I don't believe MLB turned a blind eye. I believe it was a consious choice to allow it. None of the US ball sports submit the WADA. All of the player's unions forbid blood testing and the leagues don't care because they know home runs and big hits sell tickets and advertising on a grand scale.

The allegation that the UCI knowingly covered up a doping positive is only an allegation. IF that happened, how in the world would Tyler and Floyd know, it would be secret, no? If they did cover it up they we're still talking about one rider, the one that was singlehandedly responsible for huge market growth for them. I would not be surprised that he'd be protected. It sucks but it makes sense. It's not as if there haven't been a BUNCH of other doping positives in the sport. If the UCI were trying to cover it up it would be easy to do a much better job then that.
 
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