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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
This is why I hate it when group members bring in their friends on our usual fast group ride.

A new guy was brought to join our group ride. He show up in a Cervelo S5 and Zipp wheels, looking fast. Fine. I figured a guy with this kind of bike has to be a good cyclist in both fitness and group etiquette. He has good fitness. But then very dumb etiquette. At every stop and red light, the guy would roll right up to the front when everyone else is queuing up behind the guy in front. Everytime he rolled up, I gave him a stern stair as if to tell him, "what are you doing buddy, get back in line". Guy couldn't take a hint (or maybe my hint was too subtle?). And then during the paceline, he would sometimes break out of formation and rush toward the front and then tries to slip in between someone, and overlapping wheels seem normal to him. Finally, one guy in our group had it and told him to stay at the back and don't move up. Yeah it sounded unfriendly, the tone was unfriendly, but that was what it took to make this noob understand.

All was fine until we were finishing up with our ride and on our way home. We took the MUT home, and this MUT has a couple of 180deg turns where you can't see around the turns. I know this trail very well, so I know these turn. At the first 180deg turn, I signal with my hand that there's a turn coming just in case guys behind me (who all knew this turn) were talking and not paying attention (it's a precautionary action by me).

So I rolled into the turn at around 20 mph, leaned my bike, and the next thing I knew, some guy was yelling "whoa whoa whoa" and my rear wheel was hit with a boom! and my rear spokes were making "clank clank clank" as they hit another object. Then a big boom as mr. dumbass crashed over the bar. All happened in a split of a second. Apparently, mr noobie thought he saw me going into the turn "fast" (which is normal speed to me!) and thinking I was about to pull away so he wanted to grab my wheel, he tried to follow me, went in hot and overlapped wheel with me in the middle of the turn, and he was on the inside of me, so when I apex, he couldn't hold his line and t-boned my rear wheel. His front wheel suffered 3 broken spokes and was unridable. He suffered a number of road rashes and a painful rib bruise because he hit either his stem or handlebar as he endo'ed. Big bruise on his cheekbone as that hit the ground. Helmet was complete destroyed. His bike didn't break, but shifters had some major road rash. I'm estimating that he must have slammed into me at at least 23-25 mph. I didn't hear him braking, didn't hear no tire screeching and sliding. The fool just didn't expect such a turn and completely lost it. Guys riding behind saw the whole thing, and they said if he didn't t-bone me, he would have just jack-knife straight thru the turn and ran into the concrete barrier on the other side of the road.

We took him to urgent care to have him bandaged up, and had him xray'ed. No broken ribs, so that's good news.

We asked him if he remember what happened. And in his recount of the accident, he said that he tried to follow me, and next thing he knew, I had turned sharply. I was thinking to myself.. "Excuse me, mr. noob? It was a f*king 180deg turn! That's how you apex. You must be the biggest idiot to overlap wheel in such a turn on a MUT. And oh I was not trying to pull away like you think, that's just how I take that turn on my daily ride". Goddamn noob still had no freakin clue in is post-mortem assessment of the accident.

Well I'm glad he's ok and didn't suffer head injury or broken bones. But frankly, I'm still pissed off at the whole accident. Now I gotta peel off my tubular tire and get my rear DA C50 wheel fixed with some new spokes. f8king totally ruined my weekend.

sorry for a long rant but goddamn sometimes I just hate noobie, think that they're idiots on wheels. And although I kept calling him a noob, he's actually been riding for 3 years and even done some cat 5 racing. Jesus.

I'm glad that somehow, by some strokes of luck, I managed to stay upright thru the whole thing. Guys behind saw me fishtailing as the noob collided into me, and they all thought I was going down too, but somehow I manged to squirm myself out and stayed upright. Other than a damaged rear wheel, I escpated unscathed. I attribute my fast reaction to "trail adversity" to my days of mtb biking where hitting unexpected objects and learning to stay upright after hitting them is key to longevity.
 

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Sounds more like idiocy or that he was out to prove himself to you guys.

I ride by myself, both as a public service to my fellow cyclists and because hell is other people.
 
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Glad you are OK! Bikes can be fixed... PITA, no doubt, but at those speeds it sounds like you made out pretty well. 20+ on a MUT is crazy dangerous on the trails by me, maybe your MUTs are different...
 

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Adorable Furry Hombre
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Glad you are OK! Bikes can be fixed... PITA, no doubt, but at those speeds it sounds like you made out pretty well. 20+ on a MUT is crazy dangerous on the trails by me, maybe your MUTs are different...
All this. Then again, at odd hours of the day you can throttle up around here on the MUT because there's no serious traffic until after-sunrise/just-before-sunset.

And the fact that he thought it was the right thing to do to hold someone's wheel on an MUT either way kind of says it.
 

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Noob, being the guest on the ride, had no business behaving on the ride as you described.

I would have been chewing the guy a new sphincter even while he was lying on the ground. And I certainly would have let your friend know so he could hopefully spread the word to noob; maybe add a dopeslap, too.

3 years of riding, some Cat. 5 racing, and a Cervelo does NOT equal brains.
He was riding with his Big Johnson, not his brains. Maybe he'll learn something from the hospital bill and the broken bike parts.
 

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Riding with people who know what they're doing is a joy. I would not avoid group rides because of idiots, even though I've been taken down by one. He was then dis-invited from our club's open to all ride- the only time I know of that that's happened.

Acl, did you take an outside-inside line and the idiot went up the inside? After you signaled? Wow, that's really dumb. It's dis-invitiation worthy. Let him learn how to ride on someone else's ride.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I'm not against inviting new guys. But a little clarification. We're an advanced group ride, at least this particular ride is advanced (cat1,2,3 caliber). So when someone new joins us, we assume that he has the fitness AND experience of knowing what to do. There are other less intense group rides if one wants something more introductory. But I guess sometimes it's hard to say NO to a member who's just trying to introduce his friend to a ride huh. It's not like anyone can prohibit freedom of the liberty to ride on a public road eh. Besides, I don't want to be that snobby exclusive ahole who probits people from bringing on their friends, right.

And yes even though I was rolling at 20 mph, but the MUT is also pretty wide, and pretty fast, because cars use this MUT too, and they regularly go 20 mph around this turn. It's a MUT used mostly by cyclists and cars, and an occasional jogger. It's not a MUT used by families taking their children and dogs out, and they know to stay away. It's more of a bicycle expressway mixed in with cars. I ride this daily, so I know what speed is safe. All the guys behind me was rolling more like 17 mph around this turn. The noob could have just stayed behind with the group, he didn't need to follow me. There was nothing in my body language goading him on to chase after me. Not sure what the hell he was thinking trying to chase me into a turn he doesn't know intimately. And by this point in the ride, it was pretty much a "cooling down" period, everyone got this, except for that guy. And I thought it's clear to almost everyone with experience that you must ride within your limits and not chase after someone that would put you or anyone at risk?

To be honest, in the past, I've gotten into a couple heated arguments with other guys who either couldn't hold a pace but try to go up front only to have to beg to slip back into the paceline (very annoying), or guys passing on the right! Yes there were some guys who got butthurt, and in the heat of the moment, expletives were sometimes thrown around. Our Saturday ride sometimes isn't the most friendly one due to the high intensity and risks at high speed, and the adrenaline is running high. I don't want to be that constant ahole cop telling people what to do. I guess it's hard to find that balance between being friendly in a high intensity ride and being an ultimate ahole huh. It is what it is, I guess
 

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Frankly, taking a 180 degree blind turn on an MUT at 20 mph seems irresponsible for someone who claims to be an experienced ride leader.

Had someone been approaching from the opposite direction on that blind turn, thus causing you to suddenly brake or make an abrupt evasive maneuver, you could have been responsible for taking out the entire group.
 

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Noob, being the guest on the ride, had no business behaving on the ride as you described.
This.
All groups have a slightly different nuance and newb was probably trying to impress his buddy and over-shot the tight corner...Unfortunately your back wheel was there.

When I've been out of state because of work I'll hook with other fast groups, and until I learn how they peel off the front or where they start a sprint, my ass is just following wheels trying not to be "that" guy. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Riding with people who know what they're doing is a joy. I would not avoid group rides because of idiots, even though I've been taken down by one. He was then dis-invited from our club's open to all ride- the only time I know of that that's happened.

Acl, did you take an outside-inside line and the idiot went up the inside? After you signaled? Wow, that's really dumb. It's dis-invitiation worthy. Let him learn how to ride on someone else's ride.
I took more of a middle-to-inside line, and not outside-inside. I know this trail very well, and experience tells me that sometimes cyclists coming in the opposite direction will float over into my lane. So to play it safe, I always try to go middle-to-inside at the apex. And yes, I did signal to the whole group behind me that this turn is coming, and the reason I do so is because usually at this point in the ride, guys are busing chatting and yapping behind (it's a cool down period) me and so I signal to them as a precaution.

His recount was that he thought I was trying to pull away so he wanted to go with me. Keep in mind that during out ride, we (the whole group) was indeed trying to attack and breakaway from each other (it's that sort of ride). But for godsakes is it not clear to everyone that once we hit the MUT and guys are now slowing down and talking and yapping, is it not clear that it's now to be a cooldown strolling home time?? Apparently, the noob still thought the attacks were still on. And still scratching my head what the hell he was thinking chasing after me like that when everyone else was clearly had backed off. Maybe I should of slowed down myself too, but hey I enjoy taking this curve at 20 mph (which is fast but nothing crazy fast) to feel the g-force in my body, it was supposed to be just a fun thing for me. Little did i know that my seemingly innocuous action would be interpreted as a friggin breakaway move!
 

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Glad to hear you're okay.

Yeah, apexing a 180 degree turn at 20mph on a MUT where I live, would just as likely get you garroted by a retractable dog leash... or run you into a family of four strung out across the entire width of the trail because, of course, it's theirs. :)
 

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I took more of a middle-to-inside line, and not outside-inside. I know this trail very well, and experience tells me that sometimes cyclists coming in the opposite direction will float over into my lane. So to play it safe, I always try to go middle-to-inside at the apex. And yes, I did signal to the whole group behind me that this turn is coming, and the reason I do so is because usually at this point in the ride, guys are busing chatting and yapping behind (it's a cool down period) me and so I signal to them as a precaution.

His recount was that he thought I was trying to pull away so he wanted to go with me. Keep in mind that during out ride, we (the whole group) was indeed trying to attack and breakaway from each other (it's that sort of ride). But for godsakes is it not clear to everyone that once we hit the MUT and guys are now slowing down and talking and yapping, is it not clear that it's now to be a cooldown strolling home time?? Apparently, the noob still thought the attacks were still on. And still scratching my head what the hell he was thinking chasing after me like that when everyone else was clearly had backed off. Maybe I should of slowed down myself too, but hey I enjoy taking this curve at 20 mph (which is fast but nothing crazy fast) to feel the g-force in my body, it was supposed to be just a fun thing for me. Little did i know that my seemingly innocuous action would be interpreted as a friggin breakaway move!
To me, this sounds like a guy riding above his level of fitness.

Probably eager to impress and full of adrenalin, but too tired to know what he was doing. The accident you describe is a textbook example of stupidity, something beginners do when they ride above their level, but something you don't do when your mental capacities are intact. Somebody with a clear mind would have noticed that the breakaways were over. I very rarely ride in groups - they scare me - but I've seen similar (and even more stupid) things happen towards the end of a ride. Guys who hit a kerb on a perfectly straight road etc.
 

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Glad to hear you're okay.

Yeah, apexing a 180 degree turn at 20mph on a MUT where I live, would just as likely get you garroted by a retractable dog leash... or run you into a family of four strung out across the entire width of the trail because, of course, it's theirs. :)
Exactly the same thing around me. You could never blast through a sharp or blind turn without being a major hazard. Even at off times you can't, too many runners use the trails at odd times. We have some great MUTs but I stay off them.
 

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You're fortunate to come out unscathed, and I hope the noob's picking up the tab for your wheel repair.

I also ride with a regular crew and you learn the riding habits and earn the trust of the group, it's great when it works well, but I get very nervous when noob's show up.

We had a couple of new guys show up for a 95-miler yesterday. One, I didn't even get his name hung at the back and didn't last 30 miles, while the other (Paul) was fantastic, climbed well and took a few strong pulls into the wind.

We also tend to stay off the MUT's, mainly due to the risk of rambunctious kids and the greater threat of unleashed or extended-leash dogs. It's not always safer on the road. I missed a ride last November and a farm dog bolted into the front of our group, taking out the guy at the front. He's only just come back from a broken collar bone.

I had a near miss yesterday, thanks to a jackass in a Toyota pickup, who thought it was funny to swerve directly into and blocking my path on a short section of paved single-lane. I stopped with my front wheel literally 6" from his bumper, and yelled a few choice words at the driver.

Good Luck getting your wheel fixed up.
 

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...I hope the noob's picking up the tab for your wheel repair....
He may offer, but that's not the custom. There's assumed risk on any group ride. Stuff happens. Everybody covers their own costs.

It's a slippery slope. If somebody doesn't call out a hole or ride clear of it enough so that you hit it and break a wheel, even if he admits fault and apologizes, does he pay? Where does it stop?
 

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He may offer, but that's not the custom. There's assumed risk on any group ride. Stuff happens. Everybody covers their own costs.

It's a slippery slope. If somebody doesn't call out a hole or ride clear of it enough so that you hit it and break a wheel, even if he admits fault and apologizes, does he pay? Where does it stop?
Agreed. Stuff happens. There's always the risk, as much as it may suck.
 

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When I have been the noob in the group I just get in the back shut my mouth and open my eyes and ears. Learn how the group functions and get in where I fit in. This approach works well in all of life's situations. Only a complete dumbass goes into such settings with both guns blazing. I used to ride with a group that had this one guy show up every now and then and act the same way. One day we had enough and gave him so much sht he never came back.
Maybe in the future a pre ride talk to any newcomers would be helpful.
 
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