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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Folks,

I'm at a point where I just do not know which trigger to pull. I weigh about 185 lbs and just became a roadie this season. I have a Felt F60 bike and mainly ride flat to rolling hills of Central NJ. I do plan on doing club riding very soon. My goal is to be able to do a century by the end of this summer. I mainly ride on the weekends for about 30-75miles.

I have recently found myself killing myself over which way I should go, either get a set of factory built wheels for around the $350 range like the Neuvation M28 Areos or go with a custom built set from Troy for about $500. All in all, I'm not sure I would notice a difference in either since I am fairly new to the roadie scene.

My thought is that the custom wheelset would be like my dream wheels and the Neuvations would be pretty good. But since my bike is not a high end bike, I'm not sure I should invest so much into a custom wheelset...

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks.
 

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Carbonormous
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Wheels can always go with you to a new bike. See what used wheels you can get for that $. I bought a set of Topolinos (butter baby) for $500 and a set of Bontrager X Lites for $200 (the guy spelled Bontrager wrong so nobody saw the auction).
 

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If your current long weekend ride is 75 miles, you'll be ready for 100 in 3 weeks, particularly if you have no major hills.

If you want great wheels go with Troy's, but if you're just looking for good everyday wheels Ultegra-10 / OP's are $190 right now from Performance.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
rruff said:
I'll second that...

But I'm wondering... what wheels do you have now, and what is wrong with them?
The wheels that I am using now are the stock Alex Class 220s. I just replace the tires to GP4000s cuz I blow out my rear tire.

They seem ok, but I figured since I got new tires, baby needs a new set of wheels to make them all good nicely. :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
edlouie said:
If your current long weekend ride is 75 miles, you'll be ready for 100 in 3 weeks, particularly if you have no major hills.

If you want great wheels go with Troy's, but if you're just looking for good everyday wheels Ultegra-10 / OP's are $190 right now from Performance.
Well, the 75miles was in 2 sittings. 35 miles on Saturday and 40 miles on Sunday.

I thought about the Ultegra10/OPs @ Performance but when I spoke to them, they quoted to weight to be over 1800 grams. Thats why i passed on those.

I figure if I'm gonna be spending some greens I want the wheels to be under or around the 1500grams mark.
 

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sdkwan said:
They seem ok, but I figured since I got new tires, baby needs a new set of wheels to make them all good nicely. :D
I'd have to buy a new set of wheels every month or two if I had to change them with the rear tire...

If the wheels you have are ok, why do you need to replace them? It's kinda hard to advise you if you are just itching to buy something... what qualities do you expect the new wheels to have compared to the old ones?

One thing I can say with certainty is that there won't be a significant speed difference... unless there is a big placebo effect. What little real difference there might be is in the aero department, where you could realize (with an aero rim and spokes) ~ 0.5% speed improvement on the flat. Saving 300 grams will get you ~ 0.2% faster on a steep climb, and essentially no benefit anywhere else. And if the quality of components is similar, the light wheels will be less durable.
 

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sdkwan said:
Well, the 75miles was in 2 sittings. 35 miles on Saturday and 40 miles on Sunday.

I thought about the Ultegra10/OPs @ Performance but when I spoke to them, they quoted to weight to be over 1800 grams. Thats why i passed on those.

I figure if I'm gonna be spending some greens I want the wheels to be under or around the 1500grams mark.
If you're going for distance, make sure your fit is perfect, watch your nutrition and hydration, and try slowing down the pace. You'll be surprised how far you can go when this is done properly.

Back to wheels - for reference, I went along the same path you did, replacing my factory Alex rims (I cracked the hub flange drive side on a ride and was nearly stranded) with Mike Garcia rims at 1450 grams (DT RR1.1/Speedcific/WS, 28 radial front, 28 2x drive 1x non-drive rear). Recently I sheared off an alloy nipple in the front, and I've had to true the wheels twice in 3000 miles. Slightly annoying, so I'm having another set built right now by ergott.

I think there is a big placebo effect as rruff mentioned because when my front wheel was out of commission I used my old Alex rim for a few weeks. I hardly noticed any difference (speed-wise) at all. While the rear wheel is obviously more important for acceleration, my next set will be around the 1700-1800 gram mark, which I have no problems with. I'm looking forward to riding a high quality aero wheel which hopefully will be indestructable.

We have some good 1500-2000 foot climbs in my area, and I'm looking forward to try both sets back to back to see what type of numbers the new rims will do, but I have a feeling there should be very very little difference.

The way I see it, your engine is most important, your mind is second, and what you ride is third. I'm in my 20's, and I've been blown away by 50-year olds riding 20 pound+ steelies multiple times (uphill, flats, wherever) so it's not the bike that makes you fast!

But getting new wheels is always fun. And it helps the economy!
 

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edlouie said:
Recently I sheared off an alloy nipple in the front, and I've had to true the wheels twice in 3000 miles.
Ouch! Where did it break? And... had you adjusted that nipple since it was new... or were you adjusting it when it broke?

edlouie said:
While the rear wheel is obviously more important for acceleration
Only if you are doing wheelies...
 

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rruff said:
Ouch! Where did it break? And... had you adjusted that nipple since it was new... or were you adjusting it when it broke?
I was riding on Golden Gate bridge, and noticed that my computer was reading funny, so I was slowing down to adjust it when it broke. I was lucky I already clipped out and was going maybe 6-8mph because I would've taken a major spill otherwise. Hadn't adjusted the nipple since new (it had maybe 2500 miles at that point) - it literally sheared clean in half. There was part of the spoke in there too.

All my wheels will use brass from now on.

rruff said:
Only if you are doing wheelies...
I wheelie the Ducati. The Specialized only does wheelies in the garage before I hang it up on the wall :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
edlouie said:
If you're going for distance, make sure your fit is perfect, watch your nutrition and hydration, and try slowing down the pace. You'll be surprised how far you can go when this is done properly.

Back to wheels - for reference, I went along the same path you did, replacing my factory Alex rims (I cracked the hub flange drive side on a ride and was nearly stranded) with Mike Garcia rims at 1450 grams (DT RR1.1/Speedcific/WS, 28 radial front, 28 2x drive 1x non-drive rear). Recently I sheared off an alloy nipple in the front, and I've had to true the wheels twice in 3000 miles. Slightly annoying, so I'm having another set built right now by ergott.

I think there is a big placebo effect as rruff mentioned because when my front wheel was out of commission I used my old Alex rim for a few weeks. I hardly noticed any difference (speed-wise) at all. While the rear wheel is obviously more important for acceleration, my next set will be around the 1700-1800 gram mark, which I have no problems with. I'm looking forward to riding a high quality aero wheel which hopefully will be indestructable.

We have some good 1500-2000 foot climbs in my area, and I'm looking forward to try both sets back to back to see what type of numbers the new rims will do, but I have a feeling there should be very very little difference.

The way I see it, your engine is most important, your mind is second, and what you ride is third. I'm in my 20's, and I've been blown away by 50-year olds riding 20 pound+ steelies multiple times (uphill, flats, wherever) so it's not the bike that makes you fast!

But getting new wheels is always fun. And it helps the economy!
I have to agree with you about the engine part. This weekend when I rode the 40miles, i rode with a 52 yr old dude and a 48 yr old dude. We were all up to par for the majority of the ride but when we hit mile 37, they just kept going and I was pretty much wipedout by then, I was able to finish but about .25-.5 miles behind them.

As for the potential new wheels, and if they would improve my performance, I think that is a bit questionable. Although my LBS and some of the roadies I've spoken w/ all agree that it would improve my overall ride. But i think a lot of it is a bit subjective. I have heard that certain wheels handle climbs better then others but at my level. I think the "Bling" effect is the major improvement which can work as a motivator to some degree.
 

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edlouie said:
I was riding on Golden Gate bridge, and noticed that my computer was reading funny, so I was slowing down to adjust it when it broke. I was lucky I already clipped out and was going maybe 6-8mph because I would've taken a major spill otherwise. Hadn't adjusted the nipple since new (it had maybe 2500 miles at that point) - it literally sheared clean in half. There was part of the spoke in there too.
Why would you have taken a spill? Did the wheel warp that badly? How many spokes were in the wheel?

The spoke actually broke as well? What model of spokes and nipples were you using? I'm just curious... this has never happened to me. I've used aluminum nipples in the past and was thinking about using them again...

What did Mike G have to say about it?
 

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T.R., conservationist
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Why don't you call Ligero? He is building wheels like crazy now so even though I have always found him informative rather than a hard sell, it would be even more so considering his current work load. He is very knowledgable and will talk on the phone while he's building and if you tell him what your needs are I think you be surprised with all the information you'll get. I think he takes calls up until 10:00 PM, too (Eastern?).
Good luck.
Jerry
 

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$4000 bike - two bit legs
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Neuvations, etc..

sdkwan said:
I have to agree with you about the engine part. This weekend when I rode the 40miles, i rode with a 52 yr old dude and a 48 yr old dude. We were all up to par for the majority of the ride but when we hit mile 37, they just kept going and I was pretty much wipedout by then, I was able to finish but about .25-.5 miles behind them.

As for the potential new wheels, and if they would improve my performance, I think that is a bit questionable. Although my LBS and some of the roadies I've spoken w/ all agree that it would improve my overall ride. But i think a lot of it is a bit subjective. I have heard that certain wheels handle climbs better then others but at my level. I think the "Bling" effect is the major improvement which can work as a motivator to some degree.
I understand the urge to buy new wheels...I've done it twice in the last year. Please don't tell the wife or she'll go on some half crazy shoe buying orgasm. But that's another story.

I have a set of Neuvations. I have a set of OPs with Record hubs. I also have a set of Campy Vento's. I have a couple of observations & comments: The Neuvations are sweet wheels, but like you, I am 185lbs. If you ride a 1450gram wheelset everyday, you will kill them in less than 10,000 miles. And yes, 10,000 miles will come sooner than you expect. I ride mine on the long weekend ride, the occasional competition and I'll ride them in Colorado this June. The OPs: bombproof. Not the lightest wheelset, no bling (OK..completely blingless) but very functional and will last forever. I bought my set in the fall of 1999 and haven't even trued them yet. I would guess they have 10-12,000 miles. The Vento's: I bought them from http://www.11speed.com/ for $147 plus $65 in shipping/import duty. These are my everyday wheels. They weigh in around 1750g (heavier than the Neuvations, but 200 grams less than my OPs). They are great riding wheels and are cool looking with the G3 spoking pattern. Theys-has-gots-some-bling-brotha. Check out 11speed.com 'cause I think they come in Shimano too. The Vento's may be a good alternative to your other choices.

Let us know your final decision.
 

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rruff said:
Why would you have taken a spill? Did the wheel warp that badly? How many spokes were in the wheel?

The spoke actually broke as well? What model of spokes and nipples were you using? I'm just curious... this has never happened to me. I've used aluminum nipples in the past and was thinking about using them again...

What did Mike G have to say about it?
Front wheel is a DT RR1.1, 28 AE15's radial heads out. Nipples are Mike's alloy nips (red). The spoke didn't snap in half, but it broke where the nipple sheared off as well. I guess if it held on we'd just be talking about a cracked nipple. The nipple sheared above the rim, and not right where it comes out.

I probably wouldn't have fallen, but it warped enough to hit the brake pads. Before the spoke snapped it was true. Afterwards i had to open the calipers completely which was annoying (since I don't use the rear brake too much).

I didn't call Mike since he gave me spare spokes and nipples when I bought the wheels. I took it to my LBS and I was ready to go in 10 minutes. They did make the comment that alloy nips were not the best solution, but the road conditions in San Francisco are pretty lousy.

I'm 5'10" 175# for reference...
 

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edlouie said:
The spoke didn't snap in half, but it broke where the nipple sheared off as well. I guess if it held on we'd just be talking about a cracked nipple. The nipple sheared above the rim, and not right where it comes out.
If I understand you correctly, it sounds like the spoke broke first and then the nipple cracked... the spoke should be able to support the load even with part of the nipple missing, but I wouldn't expect the upper part of the nipple to support the load on it's own. It is possible that the nipple threads were bad and this resulted in spoke failure... but I'm guessing that the spoke was the primary cause.

I have those spokes on my wheels, with brass nipples... but only a couple thousand miles so far... we'll see.

I'd definately talk to Mike about it... for his information, if nothing else.
 

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thread drift.............
How many miles on the Ventos so far? How would compare the ride to the open pros? are they harsher? i almost pulled the trigger on them when i saw the price but i was worried about a weight restriction. Do you know if there is a weight restriction? Bling-bling for sure. they do look cool......
 

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Vento

cmg said:
thread drift.............
How many miles on the Ventos so far? How would compare the ride to the open pros? are they harsher? i almost pulled the trigger on them when i saw the price but i was worried about a weight restriction. Do you know if there is a weight restriction? Bling-bling for sure. they do look cool......
Maybe 400 miles so far. Ride vs OP's....stiffer and quieter. For some reason the OP's felt softer?? Of course, they were on a different bike with different brand of tires. Bad comparison. The OP's are now my second bikes wheels and third choice of wheelsets.

I like the Ventos except for when I get a flat. Campy wheels are notorious for being very tight when it comes to changing tires. I bought them 'cause there isn't a weight restriction. I weigh around 187lb now but was just over 200lb at the beginning of the year. I had no hesitancy riding them. I have an acquintance over 225 who road the 2005 version all of last year without problem. The 2005 version is heavier (2000g) than the 2006 (1750g). $147 at 11speed but that shipping and import duty sucked. If you order them, might as well order a bunch of stuff since you are going to pay $45 shipping no matter what. Might as well throw in a chain, tubes, etc.....
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
PaulCL said:
I understand the urge to buy new wheels...I've done it twice in the last year. Please don't tell the wife or she'll go on some half crazy shoe buying orgasm. But that's another story.

I have a set of Neuvations. I have a set of OPs with Record hubs. I also have a set of Campy Vento's. I have a couple of observations & comments: The Neuvations are sweet wheels, but like you, I am 185lbs. If you ride a 1450gram wheelset everyday, you will kill them in less than 10,000 miles. And yes, 10,000 miles will come sooner than you expect. I ride mine on the long weekend ride, the occasional competition and I'll ride them in Colorado this June. The OPs: bombproof. Not the lightest wheelset, no bling (OK..completely blingless) but very functional and will last forever. I bought my set in the fall of 1999 and haven't even trued them yet. I would guess they have 10-12,000 miles. The Vento's: I bought them from http://www.11speed.com/ for $147 plus $65 in shipping/import duty. These are my everyday wheels. They weigh in around 1750g (heavier than the Neuvations, but 200 grams less than my OPs). They are great riding wheels and are cool looking with the G3 spoking pattern. Theys-has-gots-some-bling-brotha. Check out 11speed.com 'cause I think they come in Shimano too. The Vento's may be a good alternative to your other choices.

Let us know your final decision.

I think I'm gonna go with the custom wheels from Ligero. I was thinking of something similar to Alienator's wheels. AlexRims Crostini R3.1/3.2, 24 spoke in the front and 28 in the back with Sapim Laser spokes on White Industries hubs. As for the color hubs, I was leaning towards a metallic blue to match my bike.
 
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