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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all.

Read a lot here, posted little since I'm a rec rider for the most part.

Background: quit racing 2 yrs ago w/birth of my first daughter before I really got started (not in long enough to get past CAT 5). Now I've started up again. been getting back in shape over the past fall/winter. I'm 39 yrs old, 5'10", weigh 162. At my peak condition when i was single, I weighed 154 (about 7% body fat).

I take a LONG time to warm up. Always have. My riding buddies have always know it--they have to wait for me in the first hr and then i need to wait for them at the end. (objectively, I can push a higher gear w/a lower heart rate at 1 hr than I can at 50 min, than at 40 min, than at 30 min, than at 20 min...--I can't afford a PM)

Also, seems more apparent now that i'm not in my 20s spending 6 days a week working out. I squeeze in work outs where I can -- 3 or 4 1.5-2 hr hr rides / week.

Problem: I don't get to where I can really push it until an hr in. I'm on limited time w/ a full time job, kids, etc. Also, if I enter a long race or stage race like i want to this summer (w a couple 75+mi legs), how do I survive needing that extra hr to get going?

So, my question: is this just a personal, biological thing that I just need to accept, or can a "train" my body to warm up more quickly?

anyone else take an hr to get their body warm?

any wisdom on my predicament would be appreciated.
 

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For crits and other events that are full intensity right out of the gate (including short RRs), I like to get a 30 minute to 1 hour warmup. With 30 minutes I can go pretty hard right off but it's not much fun; with closer to an hour I'm chomping at the bit to put the pain down.

Off hand, I would say you take longer than most people, but I don't think it's something to worry about. Just plan it into your schedule and get to the race site with plenty of time to get registered, set up, changed, warmed up, and to the starting line.
 

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Yup get yourself a set of rollers and warm up before your daily rides and races. You can also use the rollers for your cool down when your done for the night.

It's a shock to the body to go hard with no warmup, your lungs burn and heartrate goes up fast. Your body is basically resisting.
I think most of this has to do with a persons pain tolerance.
 

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ideal for me is 1.5hr ride to the race, otherwise an hour on the rollers. Also like to get in 2 efforts at threshold for 2 mins each and 2 75% sprints to open the legs up (I get off the rollers for this to avoid falling on my face in front of everyone).
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks all.

Wasn't sure what's considered "normal."

I was concerned on longer races that an hr warm up w a couple high efforts in there to really get the body awakened could harm race performance b/c, if the race is 5 hrs and I'm adding an hr for warm up, that's a 20% extra effort on my part over what those w/a quicker warm-up response are doing.

I already know I have the option to ride for an hr before every race on my trainer...I was asking for an alternative to doing so. So, if my question wasn't clear: is it possible to "train" your body to warm up more quickly just like we train our bodies to sprint faster, ride at LT longer, increase power for TT and climbs, etc. We train everything else, why not that?
 

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I think you can get used to riding hard without a warmup. That would be considered training to do so. Of course why would you want to do that? Look around at the top road, track, crit racers, they all warm up before their races. Matter of fact it's recommened you warm up for up to 60 minutes before a race. I personally don't see the need for any high efforts during the warmup, just a gradual increase of speed should do it.

If you're cat 5 why are you doing 5 hour races? I would think your races would be no more than 60miles.

Honestly unless you cramp easily or aren't taking on board enough carbs/hydration during your rides/races than a warmup isn't going to cause you to fatigue any faster.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
*deep breath*

ok. I'm getting frustrated here. How about trying to be helpful instead of critical?

why would I want to? b/c i have a life and taking an hr to warm up when I only have 1.5 - 2 hrs per work out is a drag. Seems pretty reasonable to want to cut down the warm up time and increase real work out time, don't you think?

why am I entering races over 60 mi's in cat 5? WTF!?!? um, why not seem to be the appropriate response. There are plenty of 60+ mi races w/a Cat 5 division in my area, and enjoy 3+ hr events?!?!

So, if you someone can give me a reasoned opinion based on physiology why or why not someone has a longer warm up period and why or why not that time can or cannot be shorted, I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise....thanks for nothin.
 

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MooseDawg said:
is it possible to "train" your body to warm up more quickly just like we train our bodies to sprint faster, ride at LT longer, increase power for TT and climbs, etc. We train everything else, why not that?
Ohhhh, now I understand your question.

The only way I can think of to do that is to do it on every ride you go on. Walk out of the house, clip in, and go hard. After a while, your body will adapt.
 

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Intervals?

MooseDawg said:
why would I want to? b/c i have a life and taking an hr to warm up when I only have 1.5 - 2 hrs per work out is a drag. Seems pretty reasonable to want to cut down the warm up time and increase real work out time, don't you think?
What do you do in that hour of warmup? It may help you to throw in some jumps after 10-15 minutes and see if that helps. Doing a couple of 90 second "TT effort" jumps with easy spinning until your pulse comes down might speed your warmup. As others have said, there are pretty wide differences between individuals, and your body adapts (to some extent) to what you throw at it.
 

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MooseDawg said:
*deep breath*

ok. I'm getting frustrated here. How about trying to be helpful instead of critical?

why would I want to? b/c i have a life and taking an hr to warm up when I only have 1.5 - 2 hrs per work out is a drag. Seems pretty reasonable to want to cut down the warm up time and increase real work out time, don't you think?

why am I entering races over 60 mi's in cat 5? WTF!?!? um, why not seem to be the appropriate response. There are plenty of 60+ mi races w/a Cat 5 division in my area, and enjoy 3+ hr events?!?!

So, if you someone can give me a reasoned opinion based on physiology why or why not someone has a longer warm up period and why or why not that time can or cannot be shorted, I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise....thanks for nothin.
What's your age, body fat, weight, height?

So you manage to hang with your buddies for an hour? Or do they blow you away and wait up for you in that first hour?
 

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MooseDawg said:
*deep breath*

So, if you someone can give me a reasoned opinion based on physiology why or why not someone has a longer warm up period and why or why not that time can or cannot be shorted, I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise....thanks for nothin.
Training is also pain management too.
 

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i think you need to allow yourself 20mins on your rides to get some blood moving, then include the efforts that Kerry Irons mentioned. this should help you open up your legs and lungs. then go back to some easier pedaling. hopefully this can get your warm-up phase down to about 30 mins. you should be warming up for about that amount anyway.

what are you currently doing to warm-up? exactly what kind of efforts can you put out in that first hour compared to the 2nd hour? maybe your friends are dropping off much more than you think during the second hour. you need to list things specifically for anybody to critique it.

i have a 2 y/o. i don't currently get in any long rides. much of the time on the bike is on the trainer and i do intervals. since you have limited time, you should put some more focus into your rides/workouts too. intensity of short workouts really does help a lot for overall fitness.
 

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MooseDawg said:
*deep breath*

ok. I'm getting frustrated here. How about trying to be helpful instead of critical?

why would I want to? b/c i have a life and taking an hr to warm up when I only have 1.5 - 2 hrs per work out is a drag. Seems pretty reasonable to want to cut down the warm up time and increase real work out time, don't you think?

So, if you someone can give me a reasoned opinion based on physiology why or why not someone has a longer warm up period and why or why not that time can or cannot be shorted, I'd appreciate it.

Otherwise....thanks for nothin.
I think we've answered your question. I've been training and racing for years. I'm 6'2" 168lbs 35years old at the moment.

If you want the real reason for your long warmup it's stairing your right in the mirror. Some people can't handle pain. Cycling is PAIN.

There is no answer to this. The only way to train for hard efforts with little to no warmup is to go out and get used to riding hard with little or no warmup.

The other problem is your workout time. You say you want to do 5 hour races, but you only have 1.5-2hrs a day to train. Perhaps you should stick to shorter races since you have a life.......as you stated in your post. :)
 

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heathb said:
If you want the real reason for your long warmup it's stairing your right in the mirror. Some people can't handle pain. Cycling is PAIN.
I edited my post last evening basically stating the same notions. When I was riding in the US, I'd spend 5-7 hours a day on training rides, half of which were distance to meet fellow team-mates/and then "pickup the pace at the end" type rides.

Terrible for leg action.

All it does is get your legs use to spinning and maintain weight while incorporating LSD [long slow distance]. Sure, after a couple hours you have spurts of strength but it's at your pace not anyone elses. You can actually say this type of training hurts your over all conditioning then assisting it. I was doing terrible at crits and under 50k races as a Cat 1/2. I would many times ride back home after a race in dissapointment then riding in the car ...finishing off another 80-100 miles total. And for what?

Then I was deposited one May in the mid eighties in europe by my coach/friend. There I learned that leg speed means hard work, working within a terrible pain zone and if you had an ounce of energy after a race it was an ounce that should have been used in the race. The first year of riding over there I fell off the back of everything, almost never finished a single race. I'd wonder when the gun went off ...that these guys just have to slow down sooner or later. Balls out, 50khp, three hundred in a pack and you'd work till you dropped to get to the front ...but only for a brief second as the rear would climb over you, push you aside and plow through. You were at the tail end once again. It was shocking and horrible and could kill an ego in a blink.

Pain.

Then I learned that maybe leg speed has a lot to do with dealing in those burn zones once your conditioning reaches a certain level. The burn zone is a great cadence with a constant uncomfortable sensation you're working through from the get-go. Your only relief sometimes is a little cross wind off chin sweat or drafting a cyclist pulling through for 30 seconds. It's just mentally dealing with the feeling you're pretty much max'd out but remembering that everyone around you is too ...and you're not alone so you kick it up a notch on the ride ...and it's good training.

In the early season in southern france we'd ride behind a Derny in a pace line from Bordeaux to Arcachon. I think it was a 50kph pace but if you were the 6th guy down from the back roller of that Derny you'd be in a world of pain ...so you'd fight to get back up as close to the "pocket" as possible.

Those early season training rides at those speeds made you feel like superman at the starting lines. You'd earn to dish out that right to make it fast and make it hurt. And we did.

Pain.

Gottah love it.:D
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 · (Edited)
Healthb

your comments are completely worthless. You say "there is no answer" to the question I presented and go on to judge that I have no pain tolerance and that you are somehow better than I am.

the lowest form of self esteem is to put down strangers....I believe you are the one that needs to take a look in the mirror and ask why you feel the need to insult someone whom you've never met.

to you specifically--thanks for nothin.
 

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MooseDawg said:
Healthb

your comments are completely worthless. You say "there is no answer" to the question I presented and go on to judge that I have no pain tolerance. I LOVE pain.
You need to seek out other riders for training rides at least 2-3 times a week. Make sure your intensions are clear and you emphasize the need to work on "leg speed." Don't coin it as anything else but increasing leg speed. Leg speed slowly comes about in group training rides faster then when by oneself. Even though the weather is good now ...I would not under estimate hooking your bicycle up to a mag-roller inside or on a car port or cool air area of the house. There I'd do only leg speed work outs ...holding 110 rpms and up the gearing as you warm up but never lowering your leg speed.

Variables in training like with other riders or a mag-roller tests your waters using different approaches to getting your leg speed up and running much sooner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Kerry,

I've tried intervals...I start to early I get a minor strain/tear....

btwn yesterday I did some research on the physiology of warming up (what I could find on via google anyway)--found some answers to some of my questions about the changes that occur during warm up (increased temp, better blood flow, increased enzymes, better conversion of lactic acid to glucose, etc), but nothing specifically on who do most efficiently warm up.

Also read an article stating what I suspected--don't burn up your glucose if you're training for a long race v. reaching a hot burn for a TT or shorter crit or RR.

I'll start experimenting--wear extra tights to attempt to help warm my legs more quickly, vary intervals at different times, etc.--for me, the MAIN limiter to early warm up seems to be pushing hard on cold muscles yields injury. That's my perception of the muscular response.

Heart and lungs--at 10 min 150 bpm "feels" hard whereas at 40 min 150 bmp feels easy. that's the subjective side of what I said in my original post: "push a higher gear w/a lower heart rate at 1 hr than I can at 50 min, than at 40 min, than at 30 min, than at 20 min...--I can't afford a PM) what I meant in my orig post". I have plotted this over time, both objective hr and subjective effort. hope this provides some additional info for a "diagnosis."

Thanks for your thoughts.

and, contrary to what some seem to think, my pain tolerance is swell. (to healthb: OH YEAH! my dad can beat up your dad!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Everydayride,

I've been averaging around 98 cadence. I'll try 110. Thanks

and, btw: I liked your essay on pain above. very nice.
 
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