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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I am looking hard at a 2005 Kelly Knobby X. Wondering what parts I put on it. Kelly recommends mountain bike cranks and hubs. Rear spacing is 135. I am assuming that I have to run mountain bike hubs because of the spacing? Do I need to run mountain bike derailers? Could I run STI shifters, a rear 105 derailer, Ultegra casette and LX hubs? Will that screw up the chain line? Kelly recommends rear mountain bike type derailer? Advantage? What am I looking for in a rim? Will standard road rims (say...standard open pro for road) fit a cyclocross sized tire (> 30 mm)? Bottom bracket? How about Ultegra triple bottom bracket? Thanks in advance for your help!!

Mike
 

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I'm a newb too, but I can answer some of the questions.

I don't see any reason you couldn't use a road rear der-spacing is the same on Shimano mtb and road cassettes (assuming their both 9 speed) using sti levers. Wheelsets you may want to try soemthing beefier, like a CXP33 or similar, although I suppose open pro's would be OK (32 hole). That's about it. If I'm horribly wrong, someone else please chime in! And, post pics when yer done:)
 

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Well, you pretty much need to get a wheel built up custom with a mtb spaced hub and a standard road rim. A plain old 32 spoke road setup is just fine, maybe something like a Mavic box section. You can run a road or mtb derailer, you need to use a long cage derailer if you run a larger cogset in the back, we generally run nothing much larger than a 38 x 27 on a cross bike, assuming a double front chainring, which is standard, so any derailer works fine.

My question for you is why would you want to go out and buy a bike with 135 rear spacing? You have to get wheels made special and they don't fit on any bike on the planet and nobody much wants them or the bike when it comes time to sell. Every other bike has 130 mm rear spacing for use with a 700c wheel, the notable exceptions are for cross bikes that use disk brakes. Disks work nicely, but have not really caught on for cross bikes for a number of rasons and will also reduce the resale, in my opinion. I think it's a bit of a white elephant.

If you are in love with the bike, build it up with a standard ultegra or 105 group, get the rear wheel made up with a mtb hub or buy Mavic Speed City (if you are running disks) and select the brakes you need. You can use standard road cranks and parts, they work fine for this application, no need to get a bunch of extra heavy duty stuff.

If you have your heart set on disk brakes, look also at the Cannondale, it is a nice machine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
jroden said:
My question for you is why would you want to go out and buy a bike with 135 rear spacing? .
Well...no good reason I guess. That is just what comes standard on Kelly. I am looking at an e-bay special. Perhaps I should look elsewhere? I am also looking at a Soma Doublecross with 132.5 spacing, so it will work fine with 130 hubs. Might be a better option. I like the idea of being able to put my road wheels on there as well. Might explore the Soma option. Thanks for the feedback!

Mike
 

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I'd keep shopping around, in that price range you can get into maybe 10 different good quality bikes that you can throw any road wheel on in your garage, plus since the 12-25 gearing is pretty standard for both road and cross, all you are changing is the tires, sometimes we even just run road wheels in the summer on the cross bikes to get used to the way they ride. If you want to race, then you grab a bunch of your road wheels and use them for cross service, you can't have enough wheels with cross tires during the race season.

Look out for the weight on some of the bikes, the cheaper ones tend to be a little too heavy. Redline tends to be a good deal, also the Cannondales sell fairly cheaply used and they are a nice bike, the older specialized were good and light. You can't go wrong with a nice thin wall aluminium frame for cross.
 

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Plus, might I add to you regarding the Kelly, the 1 inch size fork is also a good thing to avoid if you can, they all seem to be 1 1/8 these days.
 

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Some of this I can answer - some I don't get. The rear spacing dictates that you use a MTB hub. Chainline is the issue with the crank and BB, I really don't know the subject well enough to tell you why or what else will work. The only reason for the MTB der is to accommodate a wide range of cogs and chainwheels. If you're running a triple and/or want something bigger than a 26 on the back you've got the MTB rear der. Your suggested combination should work fine for the cassette, hub, shifter and der. I just can't say on the crank. All depends on how you ride and where and why. If this is a race or play bike you won't want the triple, but if it's a commuter and you've got terrain, then you might. Myself I don't understand geography, I live in Florida and run a single - ring up front.

I've had no trouble at all running 32s on Mavic Open rims.

Ron
 

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I'm no help, but...

...nice to see constructive help and commentary as opposed to the usual negative & elitist crap. Crossers seem less pretentious than roadies and more grounded than MTBers!
 

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Do you spend much time here? Mostly decent, constructive advice here, on most of the forums (including "roadie" ones.)
 

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Cross Wheels -

I built up a Salsa Las Cruces - which has 135 rear spacing - and used an XT rear hub laced to a Salsa Delgado rim. I actually bought the rim/hub pre-built. Using Ultegra STI shifters and an Ultegra rear deraileur with no problems. I also use disk brakes. I noticed that when looking for frames that it seemed more and more frames were being built to a 135 rear spacing. Maybe this was my perception, but I knew if I wanted to use disk brakes - which I did - the options were greater. I could only find a few 130mm hubs that fit disk brakes. Obviously this is a trade off - I needed to buy a new set of rims (which honestly wasn't my intention when I started, but once I got to building it up is the route I ended up taking). This is kind of a pain because now I have 9speed Shimano road rim, 9 speed Shimano cyclocross rim with disks and I just bought a new road bike with Campy 10 - maybe I should get a Mac for home since I use Windows at work just to continue the incombatability.

So know for a little off the main topic......

As for negative feedback - I've lurked here quite a bit and I can say that I haven't posted pics or build up info of my bike because of the "backlash" (maybe this is too strong a word) I've read regarding rider's builds because 1) they have disk brakes and these may/may not be legal, 2) some guy put fenders on his bike because it doubles as a commuter or 3) some other mundane component is not "legal".

I use disk brakes because they are better technology - or at least I perceive them as better technology (how many F1 cars do you see running drum brakes? - and yes, I know, that race cars need to stop much faster than cyclists and the intent of cycling is to maintain consistent speed). Some may debate that - fine - don't use them. I just don't understand the whole "backlash" against better technology related to brakes - if you are not up to new advances - go back to riding only steel frame/forks with downtube/bar end shifters, a 5 -7 speed cassette and toe clips. People ogle and ahh over a custom Seven Ti single speed because its newer / better technology (again debatable) and then question the same person's use of disk brakes. (However I do see many people following the old line and riding Surly, Kelly, Gunnar's or other steel frames.)

I'm probably stiring up a can of worms - but I just don't get it.
 

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I used disks for a season of cross racing and they are an outstanding brake, they stop you in all conditions and work pretty well with the sti levers. Having great breaks was not the advantage I had hoped, I was really expecting to be able to brake later than people with canti brakes, but this did not prove to be the case. I'm down on disk brakes for someone buying a race bike for 3 reasons:

1) the 135 hub issue is a pain for someone who tends to have a lot of road bikes and wheels already in stock

2) they weigh a pound more

3) There is a lingering uncertainty about using them in Canada and for US UCI level races or nationals, which is a pain for me.

If someone wanted a nice bike to ride in the woods and communte in crummy weather, the disks are a very nice option. For someone wishing to set up a cross racing bike, I'd steer clear.
 

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Ronsonic said:
If you're running a triple and/or want something bigger than a 26 on the back you've got the MTB rear der.
Technically you can run cassettes bigger than 26 with a road derailleur. For shimano you can run up to a 27 with their road derailleurs and with campy you can run up to 29 with a medium or long cage rear derailleur (only use the long if you want a cassete > 26 AND a triple front).

You can also run a triple with road derailleurs, you should just get a medium or long cage derailleur to compinsate for the greater gap between your smallest chainring and your largest.

In my mind the only reason you NEED a mountain rear derailleur on a cross bike is if you want something bigger than a 27 (shimano) or a 29 (campy). These days the trend is toward a compact double with a 34 small chainring and a 27 or 29 cassette if you want lower gears. Not to say there's anything wrong with a triple crank...

Personally I'd stay away from 135 hubs unless you have a darn good reason to use one. Folks used to talk about better dish of your rear wheel with those hubs but these days with offset spoke bed rims can get you really even tension/dish on each side of the rear wheel. It seems that discs might be the only reason to use a 135 hub - but honestly I'm not that familiar with discs on a cross bike.
 

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I am assuming that I have to run mountain bike hubs because of the spacing?
Yes, you must run a 135mm spaced rear hub (MTB).

Do I need to run mountain bike derailers?
No, it depends on what type of cassette you want to run (see below).

Could I run STI shifters, a rear 105 derailer, Ultegra casette and LX hubs?
I don't see why not, but I've never tried.

Will that screw up the chain line?
It depends on the setup, but in your case no.

Kelly recommends rear mountain bike type derailer? Advantage?
Wider gearing.

What am I looking for in a rim?
32/36h rims with a v-section for strength (Mavic CXP). Open Pros work great too and are lighter.

Will standard road rims (say...standard open pro for road) fit a cyclocross sized tire (> 30 mm)?
Yes, it gets tight beyond 32, but you could get a 37 on most. It depends on the rim - check with the mfg'er.

Bottom bracket? How about Ultegra triple bottom bracket?
It depends on what kind of crank you want to run, but yes that would work.


Some things to think about:

- I recommend a SHORT CAGE derailleur if you're going to run a double, like most cross setups. If you want to run a road triple, then you'll need a long cage rear der.

- Disks breaks are unnecessary and canti's are very cheap and easy to use, and can be compatible with STI shifters.

- MTB hubs are more weather sealed than roads, good for muddy/wet 'cross conditions.

- GET IN-LINE BREAKS! (I love mine and would never go back, especially off-road)

- I use CXP-22 rims with MTB hubs (M475) and love them - only $129 for a set. Cheap and durable, and disk compatable.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks....

Thanks everybody for the replies. I think I have a MUCH better idea of what I want now. I will either buy a complete bike (like a Lemond Poprad - no disk) or build up a steel frame (Soma, Kelly, other???). I will be running canti brakes, 105 brifters and derailers, compact road double crank, 12-27 Ultegra casette, and more than likely a steel fork. For wheels, probably Mavic Open Pro and Shimano road hubs (105 or Ultegra), or perhaps Velocity Deep V or Aerohead. I am leaning towards Soma because I will mainly be using it for a rain bike, a little light loaded touring and MAYBE a cross race or two. My Kestrel Talon will be used for fast group rides and races. I plan on many, multi day bike trips on this bike and long, solo training rides on the CX bike. Oh...and maybe a cyclocross race or two..

Thanks again

Mike
P.S. This is an example of what is best about the internet!
 

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Careful on sizing for your intended usage, for race bikes, we generally end up with either a smaller frame, or same size as road but set up a little shorter and taller across the top. For the use you mention, you would shoot for same size as your current road bike, including (maybe, I forgot all high school geometry) stem. Downside is you will be quite a lot higher off the ground with a cross bike set up this way. As much as I like riding around on my cross bike, I would not select it for either a long touring ride or loaded trips, I'd just go with a standard road bike with a little fatter tires.

In any event, good luck, study the "standover height" dimension when comparion frames of the same size and compare against a similar road bike to get a sense for the additional height. The uses you mention do represnt a compromise, so it's a tough call in terms of what you need.
 

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mprevost said:
Well...no good reason I guess. That is just what comes standard on Kelly. I am looking at an e-bay special. Perhaps I should look elsewhere? I am also looking at a Soma Doublecross with 132.5 spacing, so it will work fine with 130 hubs. Might be a better option. I like the idea of being able to put my road wheels on there as well. Might explore the Soma option. Thanks for the feedback!

Mike
i sold my voodoo because of that annoying spacing. if its your only bike, not as bad. if you plan on swapping wheels with your roadie...it wont happen.

no to mention that you now gotta get an odd wheel built up, as jroden says.
 

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fatctycycl said:
If it's a steel frame, you can bend the chainstays back to 130mm.
....... or you could just buy a steel that is 130mm to start with :)
i know its possible, but i would hate to do that to a NEW bike, right out of the box. im pretty sure thats why they have alignment tables.
 

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my understanding is you don't just latch onto the thing and bend it, you use a more systematic approach using a threaded rod and some nuts, i think it was on sheldon brown's site under "cold setting" you can also go the other way for old 7 speed rear ends. When I did this with 7 speed spaced bikes to 8 speed I had problems with chain interference on the smallest cog and the dropout faces not quite being straight. Why anyone would buy a brand new bike with the intension of cold setting it to a different size right out of the box is beyond me.
 

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mprevost said:
I am looking hard at a 2005 Kelly Knobby X. Wondering what parts I put on it. Kelly recommends mountain bike cranks and hubs. Rear spacing is 135. I am assuming that I have to run mountain bike hubs because of the spacing? Do I need to run mountain bike derailers? Could I run STI shifters, a rear 105 derailer, Ultegra casette and LX hubs? Will that screw up the chain line? Kelly recommends rear mountain bike type derailer? Advantage? What am I looking for in a rim? Will standard road rims (say...standard open pro for road) fit a cyclocross sized tire (> 30 mm)? Bottom bracket? How about Ultegra triple bottom bracket? Thanks in advance for your help!!

Mike
Mike,

My Monk has 135mm spacing and I don't know if any or all apply to the Kelly, but below are a couple of observations from 6 months of trying to get the thing set up properly:

Wheels:
You can either get a custom rear wheel with mountain bike hubs or may be able to get away with road wheels and 4-5mm worth of washers. I use a cheap Performace rear wheel with washers for the first few months and the chainline was a few mm off, but that was the least of my problems at the time. A few months ago I had an LX/Open Pro wheel built and its been fine.

Drivetrain:
I had major problems finding a modern crankset and BB that would work. The newer integrated models are not wide enough (hit the stays). Shimano Octalink were no good either because the road version comes in 108, 109.5 or 118. The first two where too narrow and the later too wide for a good chainline. If I ever meet the engineer at Shimano who decided that mountain and road bikes need different splines I'm going to kick him in the shin, because I know have an extra Durace crank and Ultegra BB I have no use for and have to sell. Stick with ISIS or square taper. I used an old 110 mtb crank with a square taper for a while until I found a deal on a Truvative ISIS Crankset and BB. Basically I needed to find a system that would let me use a 113mm bottom bracket.

Derailleurs:
In the rear, mix and match road and mtb parts at will. Up front, you have to use a road derailleur with SIS levers. If the Kelly has top pull cable routing this will mean you'll need some sort of pulley system. IMHO, top pull on a cross bike is much dumber than 135mm spacing since nobody makes a top pull derailleur that works with integrated levers.

Mike
 
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