[kgg]

I just put my wife (105 lbs) on tubeless tires (Ultremo ZX, Stan's Alpha 340 on Campy Record hubs, DT Revolution spokes, 32 front and rear, 3 cross, 1 oz. sealant per tire). She has ridden these wheels for about a year on regular tubed tires without complaint. But after switching to tubeless she complained that she felt like they were all over the road - like riding in gusty crosswinds.

I thought perhaps the spokes had become loose after putting on tubeless, so I checked the tension, and sure enough, they had. I tensioned them back up - around 80 kg in the front and around 120 ds/50-60 nds in the rear. She still complained. So when we were on a ride yesterday, I traded wheels with her. Sure enough - they felt really awful. I was having to constantly do course corrections to ride in a straight line. Not fun at all. (I'm 190 lbs.)

This is only really noticeable on downhills when you get above 25 mph, or so. Seems to feel somewhat better when pedaling, but not totally sure about that.

Any ideas on what to look for and how to fix this? Hubs are well-adjusted, no side-to-side play in them.

 

[Jay Strongbow]

No real ideas but for starters I'd put tubed clinchers back on for a ride so at least you'll know it something happened to the wheels or it it's the tubeless tires causing the issue.

 

[bikerjulio]

My Alpha 340's (also 32H 3X) were tensioned higher than that, and were retensioned about 3 times before they became stable. They are a little notorious for loosing a lot of tension after a tire is mounted. I run tubed PR3's 23mm at about 100 psi and no problems like what you describe. I'm 195# on a good day.

 

[kgg]

She was running Pro race 3's also - no problems in that configuration. The problem came with the switch to tubeless. As I mentioned - I did retension the wheel, but I'll double check and make sure it didn't come loose already (after ~10 miles).

 

[dcgriz]

what air pressure you were inflating the tubes at and what pressure you now use for the tubeless?

 

[kgg]

what air pressure you were inflating the tubes at and what pressure you now use for the tubeless?

She was running 65-75 with tubes. I started her at 70 tubeless, and then went to 80 on the last ride.

 

[dcgriz]

She was running 65-75 with tubes. I started her at 70 tubeless, and then went to 80 on the last ride.

you dont get the benefit of the tubeless when you run them at higher pressure than the tubed. I dont think, though, this is causing the problem you are experiencing.

Some times when you put on tires the rim is moved to the side and that could create an issue especially if you have low tension; the low tension then could work some of the nds spokes loose and cause the wheel to wobble.. At 105 lbs rider weight the tension would have to be awfully low for this to happen though. How the spokes feel when you squeeze them together compared to another wheel that has been behaving for you?

 

[steel rider]

I have the same wheels but with discs. My wheels detensioned as well even though I never ran clinchers. I was told to make sure they are trued and tensioned with the tires on and set at 100 PSI.

Also FWIW, it has been suggested that for a disc wheel setup, use Lock-Tite on the threads and lube where the nipple meets the rim. (Ok I just wanted to write "lube the nipple", I admit)

So far so good with one 80 mile ride and a pretty large decent down Mount Diablo and Redwood Road here local to me. Makes me real nervous though. I am thinking of returning them and going to a CF setup from the bike manuf.

 

[kgg]

The spokes feel like they're under pretty good tension. I used the Park tension gauge to check them when I was re-tensioning (with the tires on). I haven't had a chance to re-check with the gauge after the ride yesterday, but a quick squeeze of the non-ds spokes seemed to indicate they were OK. The dish seems fine also - I checked that and re-trued when I re-tensioned them. I haven't re-checked the front, but I'll do that also.

The main reason for switching to tubeless was so that she wouldn't have to change a flat. I went with 70 psi because that's Schwalbe's recommended minimum, and seeing how easily the bead slips to the center when you let the air out, I didn't want to push it beyond their recommendations.

 

[tednugent]

http://www.notubes.com/literature/ztr_rim_specifications.pdf

Stan's specifies 125 KgF spoke tension.

 

[kgg]

Stan's specifies 125 KgF spoke tension.

Yes, that's how I built them (at least on the rear ds). I think that's too much for both sides on the front.

 

[dcgriz]

When you spin the wheel (no tire) on the stand how much is the radial trueness tolerance? At how many places it hops, if it does?
Is the tension balanced between spokes?
When you first rode it after the last truing did you hear any of the spokes ping?
I'm not asking you about lateral trueness because I assume you would have taken care of that already.

 

[Kristatos]

I haven't had the spoke tension issues so I can't comment on that, but I would also check to see if the wobbling goes away after a little bit of riding. In other words, is it noticeable really when you just get going on the bike, or is it all the time. The reason I ask is if you have a good amount of sealant in the tire it can take some revolutions to get it spun out evenly, and I've on rare occasions when a tire and sealant were new (like first couple rides after install) felt a little wobbling which I could only attribute to the sealant creating a temporary imbalance. It has always gone away pretty quickly but if your wife was freaked out by it and slowed down, only to start up again, etc she may have continued to experience this and had her confidence shaken a little. Just a thought - good luck getting to the bottom of it.

 

[kgg]

When you spin the wheel (no tire) on the stand how much is the radial trueness tolerance? At how many places it hops, if it does?
Is the tension balanced between spokes?
When you first rode it after the last truing did you hear any of the spokes ping?
I'm not asking you about lateral trueness because I assume you would have taken care of that already.

Tension is actually quite well-balanced. I'll try to check on radial trueness, but that's a bit harder with the tire on, which is how I re-tensioned. May have to take the tire off again to check.

I think I'll be doing some experimenting when I have time - not for a few days though. Probably change tires back to tubed (one at a time) and see how it goes. Try riding with no sealant in tubeless.

I'll let you all know what I find, and thanks for the suggestions.

 

[kgg]

Well, I removed all the sealant and went for a ride last night - problem still there. Next step - go back to the old tires with tubes. Will report back.

 

[Kristatos]

Well, I removed all the sealant and went for a ride last night - problem still there. Next step - go back to the old tires with tubes. Will report back.

Just rode with someone today on a brand new set of 340s with Hutch Fusion 3s and 2 oz Stans and he was raving about the ride - no idea what the issue is with your wife's bike but it would be a shame if she had to ride those hoops with tubes. (that said, it would be much worse if she gave up riding altogether!)

 

[kgg]

Well, I removed all the sealant and went for a ride last night - problem still there. Next step - go back to the old tires with tubes. Will report back.

Put on the old Pro3's with tubes and went for a ride this morning. Hit 46 mph coming down the canyon - tires and wheels felt rock solid. I conclude that the tires are the problem.

 

[forge55b]

Tires not seated on the beads perfectly? Imperfections on the casing?

 

[kgg]

Tires not seated on the beads perfectly? Imperfections on the casing?

Tires were seated perfectly. Maybe the tread is not fully bonded to the casing? I'll investigate a bit.

 

[bobonker]

Is the wheel centered (dished) the same when the wheel is setup tubed and tubeless?

Bob