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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm looking at three used bikes, early 2000s vintage, all about the same price.

Klein Quantum Pro: Dura Ace 9 spd
Waterford 1200 : record/racing triple
Serotta CSI: Chorus 9 speed.

They each have appealing attributes that distinguish them in my mind.

The Klein is light and sporty, though I'm concerned about long-term durability and long-ride comfort.

The Waterford strikes me as quintessentially classic: not extremely anything, but a durable workhorse with style.

The Serotta is somewhere in the middle of those extremes.

Wondering if anyone can comment on their own experiences with those bikes, especially direct comparisons.

BTW, my details: avid, if not particularly skilled. 190#'. Weekend rides 50-75 miles. Currently riding a vintage italian lugged frame that wouldn't be cost effective to upgrade.
 

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Bryce said:
Klein Quantum Pro: Dura Ace 9 spd
Waterford 1200 : record/racing triple
Serotta CSI: Chorus 9 speed.
So... Why is the Klein in there?

Aside from that, I would get the Waterford because they're just too damn nice. That, and I don't like Serotta. But either one would be a very good choice. Just not the Klein.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
So, why not the Klein?

Thanks for the above comments.

The asking price on the Klein is slightly lower, though still in the same ballpark. What in particular about the Klein is a negative? Reader reviews on the site seem positive. Just because it's aluminum? Same with the Serotta comments.

All three seem to be well spec'd, high quality machines. I'd really like to hear real world experiences about the ride quality, durability, and nuances of each--the stuff that I wouldn't necessarily get from a short test ride.
 

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I said what I said because the Klein in my book is not about recreational, all day, long ride comfort. It's about racing and racing crits in particular.

Both of the others and solid, well designed, lifetime bikes. I'm not a big Serotta fan either, but given that's it's used and the Serotta cult think has lessened, they build darn nice bikes. Ditto the Waterford. I'd buy either, and I'm like you - a long ride recreational cyclist. I own 5 aluminum road rockets, and I'd never choose one for an all day, tooling around town ride. I always choose one of my steel bikes for that purpose.

The Klein is not a bad bike, I just don't think it lines up with you. Do purely to personal biases, no facts included.
 

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the one that fits

Get the one that fits you best if there are any differences in size and geometry. I would choose the Waterford or Serotta over the Klein hands down, unless the Klein fit better because I prefer steel frames. The Serotta would probably have the best resale value assuming its in good shape, if that's an issue. A new CSI costs well over $2,000 now for frame and fork.
 

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Kleins are actually deceptively comfortable, especially for an aluminum bike. No comparison to something like a CAAD5. The owner of my LBS has a Q-Carbon and absolutely swears by it, and this guy has ridden just about everything. Plus every Klein I've ever seen looks super flash.

Question: Have you ridden all of these bikes? I can't tell from what you've posted so far.
 

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What model Waterford??

If I had a budget for a nice touring bike.... I would pick the Waterford hands down. Amazingly friendly customer service. Call them... they will pick up the phone on the first ring and be glad you called. They invite you to tour the factory AND you can talk to Richard Schwinn if he isn't on another call. I was floored at how customer centered the company seems to be.
 

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As a Waterford owner, I agree with HRob's comments, but a CSI isn't something to be passed up these days.

Check the Waterford's pipes. If they're 853, I'd definitely sway towards the CSI. H2Oford builds great bikes--GREAT--but their 2200 series were more the equal of the CSI. If the prices are comparable, I'd go Serotta.

My deflated $.02......
 

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My .02.......

I agree with others, the Klien is not in the same class as the other 2...

re the Waterford & the Serotta.......SN69 is correct on the waterford, make sure that you know what tubes were used.....

re the Serrotta......find out as much as you can about the original owner....Serotta's can be built incredibly stout for really big guys or lss stout for mountain goats....if you have the Serial # e-mail or call serotta and they can tell you how well the build will fit your riding style.

In my experience, Serotta's in general are stiffer bikes than other steel bikes.....at your size that may be good as long as it's not to stiff.

They are no longer making the CSI.....which may maintain the value for you.

Either the waterford (if it's the right tubeset, or the Serotta would be my choice...both great builds.

Len
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks

I appreciate all the comments. Exactly what I was looking for. At this point it's mostly an emotional, personal decision -- which one fits best and suits me best.

The Waterford is a 1200, so it's 753, rather than 853. My sense is that I'm looking at a slight weight penalty that is inconsequential considering my size. Is there anything else I should be aware of regarding that tubeset?
 

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. If they're 853, I'd definitely sway towards the CSI. H2Oford builds great bikes--GREAT--but their 2200 series were more the equal of the CSI. If the prices are comparable, I'd go Serotta


What wrong with 853 tubes. Just a couple of years ago it was the cat's meow. Now what??? A waterford built with 853 is still in my opionion a great bike. I know cause I have one :)!
 

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If you go here you can read some salient 753 points by a terrific builder with the initials DK:
http://www.serotta.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17600

Note the comments about the difficulty of brazing with 753. Waterford was one of the companies who specialized in it.

One thing that Len alluded to is the option of calling Serotta and Waterford with the serial numbers. They can each tell you about both bikes' personalities.

Emotions being what they are, I'd personally lean towards the CSI (as long as it doesn't have any odd custom quirks). Waterford will be building exceptional, world-class lugged steel for many years to come. Serotta stopped, and that gives the edge to the CSI in my opinion.

Good luck.
 

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I Have A Klein Quantum

I cant comment on Serotta or Waterford but I can comment on Klein. I have ridden a lot of other bikes - steel, carbon, titanium and aluminum.

My Klein is super stiff. On rought pavement it can rattle your brains. On a smooth street its awesome. The frame does not flex at all. Literally none no matter how much you push it. For distance I am not so thrilled with it. Its too stiff. This bike no matter what the Klein ads tell you its not for distance riding. Its more geared toward short racing. The angles of the tubes are steep as well. I have been complaining about a fitting issue. It might be me or the bike is just the wrong size. I just cannot become comfortable on it.

As far as the workmanship paint wise, its top notch. Mine was one of the last years that was made in Chehallis, WA. Spectacular dazzling blue that changes color with where you are standing. Never had a problem with cracks or anything else.

This was after the Trek takeover and I can truthfully tell you at the time I bought Trek was already lowering the finishing standards. The paint on mine is spectacular but some of the details are not. For example on the main tubes the lettering is painted on but the tiny Klein names on the fork and rear is decals that are not clear coated. Same with the logo on the fork. The head badge is a squishy wrap around plastic thing. The individual factory components - stem, seat tube are OK but not great. All Trek brand stuff.

When mine was made, Klein was powder coating the frames so it literally does not come off that easy. Sure you can scratch it but it doesnt flake off. I have heard numerous bad things about them since the factory was moved to Waterloo, WI. The paint flakes off, sloppy welds, cracks, etc... If it was powdercoated it would not come off as powder coating impregnates the metal. So you know Trek is not powdercoating them.

I have got the titanium itch at the moment. I rode a Seven recently and it was a much nicer bike. Smooth as a baby's butt. Didnt jar your brains. From what I have read thats the nature of titanium, its kind of like steel. Its not as smooth as carbon which you really dont feel anything as it muffles the fibrations but its far smoother than aluminum. For people that say they cant tell I dont know what to say.

While the Klein is nice I am not sure I would buy another one. Caveate emptor...
 

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Nothing at all wrong with 853. In fact, the other forum's discussion I cited got particularly interesting as two other notable frame gurus joined DK. ...Always good to hear/read their opinions. In fact, I distinctly remember my fitter telling me to worry less about the pipes my Waterford was going to be made from, and think more about your contact points with regards to overall bike balance.

Or as HeronTodd just said in a different thread, it's about the bike's design more than the materials.

Incidentally, I've got a 2200 I love, and I have no idea what the actual tubes are, other than painted blue, that is.....
 
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