[masongsp]

I'm hoping someone has run across this before and can help me out here.....

I just received my Neo Retros. Went to mount the front set to my Wound Up carbon fork - WTF?!?! The brake pad hits the wheel a good 1/4" to 3/8" below the braking surface! I've got them adjusted and angled as high as they will go, and it still won't hit the correct spot on the rim. It looks like I'll have the same situation in the rear too. They are also visibly shorter than the Avid Shorty 4's they are replacing - the irony.

Paul was not in today, so I've got to wait until Monday to talk to him. Can anyone tell me what is going on here?

(And why does this kind of crap ALWAYS have to happen on a Friday night??? At least it isn't a 3 day weekend this time! )

Thanks for any help you might be able to give!!
Brent

 

[jnichols959]

I had the same setup on my bike (changed to Vs on the front because of the chatter when using it as a commuter) and found that some combination of the wide fork, low brake bosses, small(er) height adjustment on the pauls resulted in a similar problem.

I ended up stealing the cartridge break pads from my Avid Arch Supremes and using them on the front. They were effectively a little "longer" in the post area and it was enough to give me decent contact/contact angle. The pads that came with my Pauls were kool-stop thinlines and they didn't have enough reach to get decent contact/contact angle. Maybe another type of brake pad would help?

You are swapping the spacers on the kool-stop pads so that the thickest spacers are between the brake mount and the wheel to give an effectively longer post right?

Heck, maybe there's a better solution - but I didn't find one.

 

[masongsp]

Yep - I've got the largest spacer on the pad side. I can't figure it out.....it looks like it's made so I could mount 650c wheels on my 700c bike??

And also, the wound up is not a wide fork by any means. I usually have to deflate the tire to remove & install - even looks like I'd have to with the thinline pads too.

 

[Phat&SlowVelo]

My Neo's are so tight I can't get them loose.....

To get the tire off, I have to deflate the tire to get it on and off? How the hell do guys change wheels in a cross race with Paul Neo's? Maybe somebody can help me out?

 

[wunlap togo]

Maybe try some other pads

I've run into this here and there, sometimes different models of pads will help. The dimensions of that fork are often problematic.

 

[jnichols959]

And also, the wound up is not a wide fork by any means. I usually have to deflate the tire to remove & install - even looks like I'd have to with the thinline pads too.

My forks is about a year and a half old. I've heard that the older wound up forks had a more narrow crown and some pics of old wound-up cross forks seem to back that up. I haven't compared the width of the canti bosses on this fork to other forks but I have absolutely no problem getting my wheels out with 32 tires on there - there is plenty of room to spare.

My guess is some folks are talking about the older, narrower wound-up cross fork and some are talking about the newer one.

I'm sure someone reading this thread will have the definitive info here but we could always measure the center-to-center distance between the brake bosses. I'm betting mine and the original posters' bosses are wider than most... They certainly look like a wide fork and I'm not sure what else would explain the behavior the original poster and I are seeing.

 

[masongsp]

My bosses on the wound-up measure 79mm c-c. For comparison, I measured a Kinesis fork I have - they come out to about 77.5mm c-c. FWIW, it looks like the same problem would exist with that fork as well. And still - impossible to remove my 32 w/o deflating it.

I've been messing around with the Paul's on the Wound Up some more. I'm getting close to making it work, but the pads are at a terrible angle (far from perpendicular to the wheel) and I would think that has to reduce the stopping power. I'm really wondering how much better the Paul's are if this is as good as I can get them vs. putting some new Koolstop pads on my Shorty 4's - $150 better? Hmmm....might have some spankin' new Neo-Retro's for sale! ;-)

 

[jnichols959]

my bosses are 7.9 cm center-to-center just like yours but as i said, i had no problem removing my wheel with 32s on there. it may be that the bosses are lower on the fork leg (closer to the dropouts) than other forks. it may be that the pauls don't have as much vertical adjustment as other cantis (or have the canti post mounts lower relative to the canti boss hole) - but if the issue were with the pauls and not the fork you'd think you'd hear about this problem with all paul neo-retro installs right?

on my previous post i was being a bit, um, dense. i didn't realize that you, commenting on how the wound up is not a wide fork, were the original poster.

it sounds like you and i had the same problem getting the pauls to get the canti brake pad high enough to get a right angle with the surface of the rim. that's why i'm quite surprised you are ALSO having problems getting a 32 tire out w/o deflating it... i just pulled my Vs off and put back on my neo retros (w/o the straddle cable and hanger) and it is as i remembered it: with the brake pad pushed to the top of the neo retro and as many spacers on inside of the neo retro, i still can't get a right angle with the surface of the rim. close but not a right angle. i do have plenty of room to get my 32s out w/o deflating. i can take a picture tomorrow for comparison purposes.

fwiw i have heard people talking about cutting off the back part of the canti break pad so it clears the fork and opens much wider. there are obvious disadvantages to this approach and it still wouldn't address the issue of getting a good angle between the pad/post and the rim.

 

[The Walrus]

I just went out and looked at the Neo-Retros on my Bianchi RC 'cross bike, with the stock steel fork--the bosses are only 73mm c-c. I, too, have the pads all the way up at the top of the slot, but the pads do hit the brake track perpendicularly. I've got 35s on the bike, and don't need to deflate, although the tires are a pretty snug fit going through the open pads. Thank gawd for the quick releases on the Campy levers....

A pretty decent alternative to the Paul's that never gets mentioned are the old Grafton cantis. They're tough to find (which is probably why almost no one uses them or knows about them), and they are a royal PITA to set up, but once they're dialed-in they're strong stoppers, they never squeal and because the pads are mounted to the "outside" face of the canti arm, the pads swing clear of the fork making tire size pretty much irrelevant when removing a wheel. I wouldn't mind replacing my Avids with these things.

 

[jeremyb]

heres a pic located in the post your cross bike thread of my woundup with neo retro.

Ive never had any kind of problem with my woundup and Paul brakes. I didnt even have to deflate the tire to get it through (32c Tufo Prestige at the time) Although it was snug.

good luck