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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
harlond said:
Yeah, he really dominated everyone but Landis.
over a minute over Landis - this must be up there among the highest margins in ITT in the Tour. Anyone know how many time trials were won by larger than a minute margins? Probably have to go all the way to Indurain times when he won by 3+ min?

edit: maybe not...
 

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How old is the guy? He has to be in his upper 30's. Back in the day when his name started with a G he was a time trial specialist and did a lot of good work in the Giro. I mostly remember him from the time trials of the 98 Giro that Pantani won, but that was eight years ago and he wasn't a kid then. The cream will rise to the top in the mountains and it will be the Landis and Savodelli show.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
bigbill said:
How old is the guy? He has to be in his upper 30's. Back in the day when his name started with a G he was a time trial specialist and did a lot of good work in the Giro. I mostly remember him from the time trials of the 98 Giro that Pantani won, but that was eight years ago and he wasn't a kid then. The cream will rise to the top in the mountains and it will be the Landis and Savodelli show.
G(H)onchar is 36. I figure G in his name is how russians would spell it, but in Ukraine it's pronounced more like "H". Then there's french vs. english translations of the same names. Which is why sometimes he is Serguei, sometimes Sergey, sometimes Serhiy or whatever. There are other names that sometimes get listed differently like that.
 

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55x11 said:
G(H)onchar is 36. I figure G in his name is how russians would spell it, but in Ukraine it's pronounced more like "H". Then there's french vs. english translations of the same names. Which is why sometimes he is Serguei, sometimes Sergey, sometimes Serhiy or whatever. There are other names that sometimes get listed differently like that.
It's transliteration thing, different embassies tranliterate differently(it's not easy or precise going from a 33 letter alphabet to a 26 character one)
 

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Room 1201 said:
It's transliteration thing, different embassies tranliterate differently(it's not easy or precise going from a 33 letter alphabet to a 26 character one)
Actually I had the exact explanation from Sergui Gonchar (which is how he likes it spelled) in one of my CycleSport magazines. When the Ukraine switched from paper record keeping to computers just a few years ago something about the softwares inability to to translate correctly between Russian and Ukrainian, so overnight the spelling of his name on all government documents changed.

I found this explanation, still kinda confusing.

Russian and Ukrainian have a similar alphabet (both Cyrillic) but they
are not identical. One big difference is that Ukrainian has both the "G"
and "H" sounds while Russian only has the "G" sound. Now here's the
really confusing part. The Russian alphabet has a single letter "G"
which looks like an upside down capital letter L with no serif. In
Ukrainian, a serif is sometimes added. The serif pointing up makes it a
G while no serif or pointing down is an H.


Russian and Ukrainian languages are also similar (kind of like Spanish
and Italian) but are also not identical. The Ukrainian word for Potter
is "Honchar" while the Russian word is "Gonchar".

In translation, many westerners are still used to the old Soviet style
translations where there is no translation from Ukrainian because it was
not recognized as a "real" language (a Tsarist and Soviet attempt to
destroy Ukrainian culture). Basically the translating culture's
sensitivity to the Ukrainian struggle for cultural identity decides
whether Ukrainian is translated correctly or not.

Typically, english speaking countries translate it as Russian. From
looking at the UCI rankings and the Italian TV, the French and Italians
recognize the difference.
 

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bigbill said:
How old is the guy? He has to be in his upper 30's. Back in the day when his name started with a G he was a time trial specialist and did a lot of good work in the Giro. I mostly remember him from the time trials of the 98 Giro that Pantani won, but that was eight years ago and he wasn't a kid then. The cream will rise to the top in the mountains and it will be the Landis and Savodelli show.

I think I agree with that somewhat. Lang seems to be an unknown quantity in the mountains so I don't know about him. I wonder how consistently we will see the faces of guys like Klöden, Menchov, Evans, Karpets, Moreau, Sastre and Pereiro up there with them in the mountains?
 

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OnTheRivet said:
Actually I had the exact explanation from Sergui Gonchar (which is how he likes it spelled) in one of my CycleSport magazines. When the Ukraine switched from paper record keeping to computers just a few years ago something about the softwares inability to to translate correctly between Russian and Ukrainian, so overnight the spelling of his name on all government documents changed.

I found this explanation, still kinda confusing.

Russian and Ukrainian have a similar alphabet (both Cyrillic) but they
are not identical. One big difference is that Ukrainian has both the "G"
and "H" sounds while Russian only has the "G" sound. Now here's the
really confusing part. The Russian alphabet has a single letter "G"
which looks like an upside down capital letter L with no serif. In
Ukrainian, a serif is sometimes added. The serif pointing up makes it a
G while no serif or pointing down is an H.


Russian and Ukrainian languages are also similar (kind of like Spanish
and Italian) but are also not identical. The Ukrainian word for Potter
is "Honchar" while the Russian word is "Gonchar".

In translation, many westerners are still used to the old Soviet style
translations where there is no translation from Ukrainian because it was
not recognized as a "real" language (a Tsarist and Soviet attempt to
destroy Ukrainian culture). Basically the translating culture's
sensitivity to the Ukrainian struggle for cultural identity decides
whether Ukrainian is translated correctly or not.

Typically, english speaking countries translate it as Russian. From
looking at the UCI rankings and the Italian TV, the French and Italians
recognize the difference.
[linguistic thread drift]

There's still an 'H' Sound in Russian (looks like 'X' in english alphabet), to confound things even more there are exceptions where 'г' can sound either like a g or a v.

PS-in case you're not thoroughly confused yet-the Russian alphabet/phonetic system makes a h*lluva lot more sense than the english system:):p:cool:

///St. Cyril was the man
 

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bigbill said:
How old is the guy? I mostly remember him from the time trials of the 98 Giro that Pantani won, but that was eight years ago and he wasn't a kid then. The cream will rise to the top in the mountains and it will be the Landis and Savodelli show.
I think he's 36, two years ago he finished second to Cunego in the Giro which always has steeper more difficult climbs than the Tour. If he held on to finish on the podium or even win the Tour, no one should be surprised except by the fact that he's old. He was riding well in the Giro this year before crashing and hurting his back which forced him to withdraw from the race.
 

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Dwayne Barry said:
I think he's 36, two years ago he finished second to Cunego in the Giro which always has steeper more difficult climbs than the Tour
you also need to take into account the world class tt skills possessed by cunego and simoni
 

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what about simoni, cunego, popovich et al.. climbin skills? gonchar was racing all by himself that year (not alone like savoldelli, i meam really alone) in the mountains and he still managed to maintain his ritmy and finish second, he did not loose any great time on the mountains that year but i really dont think he have the same level of fitness now.
 

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harlond said:
Yeah, he really dominated everyone but Landis.
Are you for real? He kicked Landis in the ass by one minute. :rolleyes:
 

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T-Mobile Dilema

Gonchar is a tenacious rider who can climb......however...... he can not follow accelerations of the likes of Cunego, Mayo, Simoni...etc....who are punchy pure climbers. He will claw back up to the pure climbers "ala Ulrich" and if he has the form that the TT suggests don't be surprised if he is riding in the lead group in the mountains. The X-factor though is if T-Mobile will now ride in support of Gonchar or just allow him to enjoy for the next few days in yellow and back Kloden in the mountains.

We will see soon.........
 

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rogger said:
Are you for real? He kicked Landis in the ass by one minute. :rolleyes:

All props to Gonchar but not so much of an ass kicking considering the fact Landis had a last minute bike adjustment per UCI at the start and a mechanical failure/bike change out on the road.
 

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offthefront66 said:
Gonchar is a tenacious rider who can climb......however...... he can not follow accelerations of the likes of Cunego, Mayo, Simoni...etc....who are punchy pure climbers. He will claw back up to the pure climbers "ala Ulrich" and if he has the form that the TT suggests don't be surprised if he is riding in the lead group in the mountains. The X-factor though is if T-Mobile will now ride in support of Gonchar or just allow him to enjoy for the next few days in yellow and back Kloden in the mountains.

We will see soon.........
Cunego, Mayo, Simoni etc. aren't CG contenders and T-Mobile has so many rides in the top 10 that any action by any of them is a danger to all the other riders with CG ambitions. T-Mobile has the cards, now it's up to the DS to play them right and probably get Klöden on the podium again.
 

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rogger said:
Cunego, Mayo, Simoni etc. aren't CG contenders and T-Mobile has so many rides in the top 10 that any action by any of them is a danger to all the other riders with CG ambitions. T-Mobile has the cards, now it's up to the DS to play them right and probably get Klöden on the podium again.

The mountains will weed out Gonchar, Rogers, Sinkewitz, Kessler, Mazzoleni and maybe, just maybe even Klöden. The fact is that T-Mobile will have to do the work up front to defend the yellow jersey in their hands. It's not just Landis vs. T-Mobile athe this point. They've have to watch out for Karpets, Evans, Menchov, Moreau, Savoldelli, Lang, Sastre and Pereiro also. Landis is actually in as ideal a position as could be in at this point in the race.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
rocco said:
All props to Gonchar but not so much of an ass kicking considering the fact Landis had a last minute bike adjustment per UCI at the start and a mechanical failure/bike change out on the road.
unfortunately, mechanical issues are very much part of the race. And it seems UCI involvement was greatly exaggerated.

Yes, had he not have a flat, and had he not have to change the bikes on the road, and had he not a potential flat earlier in the prologue, maybe he would be only 30-40 sec back, rather than a full minute. Or maybe Landis simply got beat by a better prepared rider - both physically and mechanically.

Let me put it this way - when Rasmussen had to stop three times for mechanicals during last year's ITT, we made jokes about it. When Landis has three mechanical incidents (one in prologue, two in today's ITT), we make excuses for it - this is just "bad luck". Once - maybe. Three times is unacceptable.

I picked Landis for overall win before the Tour, and I still think he will win. But lack of professionalism - either on his part of his mechanics - is really scary!
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Dwayne Barry said:
I think he's 36, two years ago he finished second to Cunego in the Giro which always has steeper more difficult climbs than the Tour. If he held on to finish on the podium or even win the Tour, no one should be surprised except by the fact that he's old. He was riding well in the Giro this year before crashing and hurting his back which forced him to withdraw from the race.
You know, even if he loses a lot of time in the mountains, I think it's rather refreshing to see a 36-year old veteran of cycling jump up and down like a 10-year old boy:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/photos/2.../photos/2006/tour06/tour067/S-GONCHARTOUR2331

(he did similar thing at this year's Giro when he got pink jersey).
 

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55x11 said:
over a minute over Landis - this must be up there among the highest margins in ITT in the Tour. Anyone know how many time trials were won by larger than a minute margins? Probably have to go all the way to Indurain times when he won by 3+ min?

edit: maybe not...
Landis had a bike change though.
 
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