Road Bike, Cycling Forums banner
1 - 9 of 9 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
34 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Something about the Garmin & Columbia teams has bothered me for awhile now...

I often hear ex-pros (Lemond) talk about what EPO did to the speed of the Peleton, and how a clean rider had no chance of competing against riders that were using.

This leaves me wondering how the clean teams are able to compete and win NOW with riders who are knowingly doping (Ricco etc), where they weren't just a few years ago.

Are the "clean teams" a myth?
 

·
Fly on a windshield
Joined
·
1,272 Posts
kentbrockman said:
Something about the Garmin & Columbia teams has bothered me for awhile now...

I often hear ex-pros (Lemond) talk about what EPO did to the speed of the Peleton, and how a clean rider had no chance of competing against riders that were using.

This leaves me wondering how the clean teams are able to compete and win NOW with riders who are knowingly doping (Ricco etc), where they weren't just a few years ago.

Are the "clean teams" a myth?
It was somewhat different back then. In the 90's there was organized team doping.
When the Festina scandal broke, doping went underground. Now as a rider you'd have to pay to get your fix.
Since Puerto, it probably went even further underground.
However the omerta is still alive and kicking.

On one day events (classics) it may be possible for a non-doped rider to beat a doped rider, very difficult but still possible.

Stage races are different 'cause each stage you loose a little something. Basically this means that if you start a grand tour with a crit level of 46 and after three weeks your crit level is still 46 then chances are some outside "help" was involved.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,766 Posts
It seems pretty clear that the vast majority of the riders dope. If this wasn't the case you would not have this general silence or omerta from the peloton in general.
 

·
Impulse Athletic Coaching
Joined
·
5,576 Posts
MG537 said:
It was somewhat different back then. In the 90's there was organized team doping.
When the Festina scandal broke, doping went underground. Now as a rider you'd have to pay to get your fix.
Since Puerto, it probably went even further underground.
However the omerta is still alive and kicking.

On one day events (classics) it may be possible for a non-doped rider to beat a doped rider, very difficult but still possible.

Stage races are different 'cause each stage you loose a little something. Basically this means that if you start a grand tour with a crit level of 46 and after three weeks your crit level is still 46 then chances are some outside "help" was involved.
Isn't EPO more effective during the long races and stages? That's why there was a movement, like, 2 years ago to shorten the stage races so that drugs are less of a factor.

One day or not, a 250-300km race will have more fatigue than a 100km race.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
660 Posts
Kent you are spot on

kentbrockman said:
Something about the Garmin & Columbia teams has bothered me for awhile now...

I often hear ex-pros (Lemond) talk about what EPO did to the speed of the Peleton, and how a clean rider had no chance of competing against riders that were using.

This leaves me wondering how the clean teams are able to compete and win NOW with riders who are knowingly doping (Ricco etc), where they weren't just a few years ago.

Are the "clean teams" a myth?
I have been trying to reconcile this issue for the last season or two. How does a clean team keep up with a team that is using EPO or transfusions? Well, the answer, at least with EPO, is that I don't believe they can. As I have posted here many times EPO has shown to increase time at threshold by around 8-13% but a massive 50% at tempo - but with (what I believe) the more prevalent transfusing ones own red blood cells - I don't believe it is know how much of an enhancement this can provide. It has to be less than EPO though. So it's possible... but an uphill battle for the Vande Veldes to stay with non-clean riders.

Nik
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,231 Posts
kentbrockman said:
Something about the Garmin & Columbia teams has bothered me for awhile now...

I often hear ex-pros (Lemond) talk about what EPO did to the speed of the Peleton, and how a clean rider had no chance of competing against riders that were using.

This leaves me wondering how the clean teams are able to compete and win NOW with riders who are knowingly doping (Ricco etc), where they weren't just a few years ago.

Are the "clean teams" a myth?
If it helps, Ricco rode away from everyone at the Tour. It looked like he was playing with them. Clearly none of the riders from Garmin or Columbia could climb with him when he chose to attack.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,076 Posts
bigpinkt said:
If it helps, Ricco rode away from everyone at the Tour. It looked like he was playing with them. Clearly none of the riders from Garmin or Columbia could climb with him when he chose to attack.
I loved stage 9 2008 just because Paul Sherwin was like "OMG WHERE ON THE MOUNTAIN DID HE BUY THAT NEW SET OF LEGS???!!!!"

A few days later I was crying, laughing and rolling in irony when the news broke.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,320 Posts
it reminded me of lance riding away from pantani on tha hautacam in 2000

at that point i realised ricco was doped big time, as did many others
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
543 Posts
alexb618 said:
it reminded me of lance riding away from pantani on tha hautacam in 2000

at that point i realised ricco was doped big time, as did many others
Didn't Basso have a similar kind of performance at the 2006 Giro right before being kicked out from the Tour? I also remember Simoni making a comment about Basso's 'supernatural' performance.
 
1 - 9 of 9 Posts
Top