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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
OK, I'm 0 for 1. I made my first proposal at a city park to hold a cyclocross race. The director of Parks and Recreation declined it saying that:

1.) I'm restrcting access to playgrounds, tennis courts, etc. The race is proposed for NOVEMBER 20. Doubt you get much tennis action then. OK, I could probably argue and win this point with him.

2.) Turf damage. You've got to be honest about it if you're using land which someone else owns. Let's face it, it's a reality of cyclocross. Obviously, he turned me down flat on this one. I feel like I can't win this one. Any blade of grass out of place, and he'll feel the turf damage is excessive: I lose.

So, what do I do next proposal for my second choice venue? How do I write this so that approval isn't only easy, but likely.

Thanks. And, I'm trying for October 10 for this time. That date wasn't possible at the old venue.
 

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Strained coccyx etc etc
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sometimes ya just can't win

we were lucky with our venue (4 races). much gravel, dirt, and offroad stuff available without using high-visibility grassy bits. and "reservation" of the park was a simple form to fill out, and a cash deposit.

my suggestion to you is to find another venue (sounds like you're on that path already).

don't over-disclose. answer only when asked, and with as little detail as possible.

my description accepted by our venue: "bicycle race". end of description.

we were to allow full access to park users of all park facilities during the events. fine. but our events were held sunday mornings. who's using the park on sunday mornings in december and january? nobody but us 'cross freaks. sure, i cordoned off the park road with caution tape. but if you wanted access to that picnic table on the far side of the lake, you could gain access to it by walking around the marked course.

bite your tongue--don't give away any unnecessary information.
 

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Old, slow, and fat.
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pitt83 said:
OK, I'm 0 for 1. I made my first proposal at a city park to hold a cyclocross race. The director of Parks and Recreation declined it saying that:

1.) I'm restrcting access to playgrounds, tennis courts, etc. The race is proposed for NOVEMBER 20. Doubt you get much tennis action then. OK, I could probably argue and win this point with him.

2.) Turf damage. You've got to be honest about it if you're using land which someone else owns. Let's face it, it's a reality of cyclocross. Obviously, he turned me down flat on this one. I feel like I can't win this one. Any blade of grass out of place, and he'll feel the turf damage is excessive: I lose.

So, what do I do next proposal for my second choice venue? How do I write this so that approval isn't only easy, but likely.

Thanks. And, I'm trying for October 10 for this time. That date wasn't possible at the old venue.
The Ranchos guys that put on a series of races here in San Diego had a damage mitigation plan in mind when they had their races. We churned up a section of grass pretty good the first time it rained... They went back in and sodded the grass section after the race was done.

They still got kicked off the grass, but at least they could have more races there...

If you stick to less grassy areas, you should be OK. Maybe the next time you have a course layout in mind that goes thru as little grass as possible?

Sounds like your park dir. has made up their mind. Next. Find a dir that is a little more open. It isn't like you're going to have a bunch of competing park users in Nov.! Here in SD, the weather's so good, people go to that park year 'round. Hence the problem.

Hope this helps,

Mike
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Yeah, but....

Grass is what makes the best part of a cross course. No single track, gravel roads are OK and pavement is good to have, but only a bit. So, I'm hoping for a venue where regular lawn grass is the majority of terrain.

I can't see winning with the "we'll fix it afterwards" scenario. You'll get raped. They'll always find something damaged, blame you (probably appropriate) and then try and make you fix it or pay to have it fixed. The financials of a new cyclocrss race don't allow for that (How's that for stating the obvious!).

I think our haiku-loving moderator has it right: Don't ask, don't tell. My next venue selection, I'm in good with parks and rec and the mayor of this town. It may go easier this time.
 

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Not too sure about that.

pitt83 said:
Grass is what makes the best part of a cross course. No single track, gravel roads are OK and pavement is good to have, but only a bit. So, I'm hoping for a venue where regular lawn grass is the majority of terrain.

I can't see winning with the "we'll fix it afterwards" scenario. You'll get raped. They'll always find something damaged, blame you (probably appropriate) and then try and make you fix it or pay to have it fixed. The financials of a new cyclocrss race don't allow for that (How's that for stating the obvious!).

I think our haiku-loving moderator has it right: Don't ask, don't tell. My next venue selection, I'm in good with parks and rec and the mayor of this town. It may go easier this time.
First, I think it was Celo Pacific who put on the San Diego series. Too bad that second race got them kicked off the grass (I was wondering why the third course was so bizarre - a mtn bike should never be an advantage in a cross race). They even had a landscaper on board to fix, so that's pretty bad. Although, if you looked at the grass for the last race, I don't believe there was evidence of the damage from the second. Wasn't as if it was pristine to begin with. Shame.

Not being honest might reserve the park once, but its unlikely you'd ever get in again. It's not good to hold back such info - what if you want to use a different city facility some day? Good luck because you just burned your bridge.

There are other alternatives which I'm hoping to try, many of which can be currently found on Slowtwitch.com under the race director series. Sure it's about running a triathalon, but most of it pertains. You need to circumvent the Parks & Rec guy(s) right off the bat. You'll go nowhere with them. Best to get a contact within the city council first. They can cut a lot of red tape and get the ball rolling. You need to have a plan in place to fix anything and everything before you submit your proposal. If they know the damage is coming, but also know it will be fixed, you stand a better chance. And you must follow through - go above and beyond, in fact. Of course, I think Celo Pacific did this, but apparently to no avail.

But, they did get to use the park again! What if they had been dishonest or not completely forthcoming from the beginning? End of series. Also important to note is that the grass was used for the first race with some damage, but it would seem they fixed it well enough to extend the use to the second race. The second race took place after a night of rain, and the grass quickly became mud in many places. This tends to hide the fact that the damage isn't as great as it would appear underneath the muck - again, a month later there were no obvious signs that I could see. Did I miss something? To be honest I wasn't looking, but it certainly wasn't enough to get my attention. And that's an important fact that needs to be addressed in your proposal. By that I mean the damage always looks worse right after the racing ends than it actually is.

I'm rambling at this point, but it's my plan to get a race going in Orange County this next year. Perhaps we should keep each other posted on what works and what doesn't. The more cross, on real cross courses, the better. Good luck.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
What gets me is this:

jm3 said:
First, I think it was Celo Pacific who put on the San Diego series. Too bad that second race got them kicked off the grass (I was wondering why the third course was so bizarre - a mtn bike should never be an advantage in a cross race). They even had a landscaper on board to fix, so that's pretty bad. Although, if you looked at the grass for the last race, I don't believe there was evidence of the damage from the second. Wasn't as if it was pristine to begin with. Shame.

Not being honest might reserve the park once, but its unlikely you'd ever get in again. It's not good to hold back such info - what if you want to use a different city facility some day? Good luck because you just burned your bridge.

There are other alternatives which I'm hoping to try, many of which can be currently found on Slowtwitch.com under the race director series. Sure it's about running a triathalon, but most of it pertains. You need to circumvent the Parks & Rec guy(s) right off the bat. You'll go nowhere with them. Best to get a contact within the city council first. They can cut a lot of red tape and get the ball rolling. You need to have a plan in place to fix anything and everything before you submit your proposal. If they know the damage is coming, but also know it will be fixed, you stand a better chance. And you must follow through - go above and beyond, in fact. Of course, I think Celo Pacific did this, but apparently to no avail.

But, they did get to use the park again! What if they had been dishonest or not completely forthcoming from the beginning? End of series. Also important to note is that the grass was used for the first race with some damage, but it would seem they fixed it well enough to extend the use to the second race. The second race took place after a night of rain, and the grass quickly became mud in many places. This tends to hide the fact that the damage isn't as great as it would appear underneath the muck - again, a month later there were no obvious signs that I could see. Did I miss something? To be honest I wasn't looking, but it certainly wasn't enough to get my attention. And that's an important fact that needs to be addressed in your proposal. By that I mean the damage always looks worse right after the racing ends than it actually is.

I'm rambling at this point, but it's my plan to get a race going in Orange County this next year. Perhaps we should keep each other posted on what works and what doesn't. The more cross, on real cross courses, the better. Good luck.
You're closer (I think). But I don't want to be a lanscaper. My apragraph about turf wnet a little somethin' somethin' like dis:

Mild to moderate turf damage may occur on the course. The race is to be hled in winter when the turf is dormant allowing for full recovery. The race course will avoid areas of the park where turf damage would be completely detrimental to intended use (basevall fields) and would use areas less harmful (service roads, areas where trucks already drive on grass).

No dice: And again, I really can't reason my way out of it, at least not this venue. So, HOW do I write the next one?

Word: The more cross on real cross courses, the better. Only problem is: I'm almost into MTB venues for this race if the next 2 choices don't work. Don't want to go there and probably wouldn't bother with ANY race. No one wins.

HELP please!

Dave
 

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Old, slow, and fat.
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jm3 said:
First, I think it was Celo Pacific who put on the San Diego series. Too bad that second race got them kicked off the grass (I was wondering why the third course was so bizarre - a mtn bike should never be an advantage in a cross race). They even had a landscaper on board to fix, so that's pretty bad. Although, if you looked at the grass for the last race, I don't believe there was evidence of the damage from the second. Wasn't as if it was pristine to begin with. Shame.

Not being honest might reserve the park once, but its unlikely you'd ever get in again. It's not good to hold back such info - what if you want to use a different city facility some day? Good luck because you just burned your bridge.

There are other alternatives which I'm hoping to try, many of which can be currently found on Slowtwitch.com under the race director series. Sure it's about running a triathalon, but most of it pertains. You need to circumvent the Parks & Rec guy(s) right off the bat. You'll go nowhere with them. Best to get a contact within the city council first. They can cut a lot of red tape and get the ball rolling. You need to have a plan in place to fix anything and everything before you submit your proposal. If they know the damage is coming, but also know it will be fixed, you stand a better chance. And you must follow through - go above and beyond, in fact. Of course, I think Celo Pacific did this, but apparently to no avail.

But, they did get to use the park again! What if they had been dishonest or not completely forthcoming from the beginning? End of series. Also important to note is that the grass was used for the first race with some damage, but it would seem they fixed it well enough to extend the use to the second race. The second race took place after a night of rain, and the grass quickly became mud in many places. This tends to hide the fact that the damage isn't as great as it would appear underneath the muck - again, a month later there were no obvious signs that I could see. Did I miss something? To be honest I wasn't looking, but it certainly wasn't enough to get my attention. And that's an important fact that needs to be addressed in your proposal. By that I mean the damage always looks worse right after the racing ends than it actually is.

I'm rambling at this point, but it's my plan to get a race going in Orange County this next year. Perhaps we should keep each other posted on what works and what doesn't. The more cross, on real cross courses, the better. Good luck.
Oops! Sorry 'bout that. I rode with the Celo guys in the evenings this fall and I totally spaced their name...

I'm assuming you're talking about the Sorrento Cyclocross? That's always been a course that favors mtn bikes. My back is jacked so badly that I can't lift the bike, so I didn't race that one... I don't know if Celo did a 3rd race in Vista, but if they did, getting kicked off the grass is the reason the course was so screwy.

I rode over to the park that Celo did their races in the other day but I didn't notice whether the grass was regrown or not. I'll have to go ride over there again and let y'all know how it looks.

Mike
 

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Old, slow, and fat.
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pitt83 said:
You're closer (I think). But I don't want to be a lanscaper. My apragraph about turf wnet a little somethin' somethin' like dis:

Mild to moderate turf damage may occur on the course. The race is to be hled in winter when the turf is dormant allowing for full recovery. The race course will avoid areas of the park where turf damage would be completely detrimental to intended use (basevall fields) and would use areas less harmful (service roads, areas where trucks already drive on grass).

No dice: And again, I really can't reason my way out of it, at least not this venue. So, HOW do I write the next one?

Word: The more cross on real cross courses, the better. Only problem is: I'm almost into MTB venues for this race if the next 2 choices don't work. Don't want to go there and probably wouldn't bother with ANY race. No one wins.

HELP please!

Dave
I don't think you know the right person yet. Remember being a kid and asking mom if you can have something? She says no, so you go ask dad.... You just have to get to someone in town that is either a cyclist, or is sympathetic to cyclists.

Its not WHAT you know, its WHO you know...

Mike
 
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