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Cross Bike Collector.....
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm a steel and Ti kinda guy. So my question is for all the edgejamacated board members of this forum. With regard to Titanium Builders, Lets say I'm in the market for a new Ti bike (and who wouldn't be) What or Who, I should say, would be your top 5 Custom Ti builders. I could name my top 3, 1: Moots, 2: IF, 3: Carl Strong. I'm not so sure that Carl and IF couldn't be swapped, I was extremely impressed with Carl Strong and the whole custom process with him, not to mention the quality of his product. So after those 3, which I have personal experiance, Who's next? Kish? Davidson? Titus? I know this is a subjective question and will offer some debate so........
Lets have um guys, Please. Top 5 Ti builders?
 

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eminence grease
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What - have you even ridden that Moots yet?

My list - I have a Moots and it's great. I also have a Davidson, and this might be an interesting alternative for you, given your geographical situation. It's a wonderful bike, they're nice guys and they do excellent work. They don't have the degree of immediacy that I look for though.

If I had plans for another one - there's Carl, can't be beat. IF - well, I'm tired of the "we can't build one for you because you have a local dealer and we don't care if your local dealer is completely incompetent because we're going to support them to the point of losing a sale" schtick. So unless my local dealer gets dropped by IF, I'll never be straddling one. I'd probably consider a DeSalvo - I like his work and I'd probably consider a Kish for the same reason.

Then there are the cult bikes - Serotta and Seven. Nice and they come with a free philosophy. :D

If I ever decide to do another ti, almost certainly Carl will be the one.
 

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have not ridden but saw a roark custom once

that looked very nice
of the bikes i see in shops nearby i'd say the moots looked better than seven, IF, or serotta
i own a bianchi ti megatube and it is not as pretty in terms of welds, but then it is celeste and rides great and was only 1800 with record 10 and eurus wheels used lightly

so if i was spending that kind of cash i'd probably go with the smaller builder whose specialty is Ti and whoce bikes I liked, but if i had to buy from a local shop i'd get a moots

happy buying and riding

jim
 

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terry b said:
What - have you even ridden that Moots yet?

My list - I have a Moots and it's great. I also have a Davidson, and this might be an interesting alternative for you, given your geographical situation. It's a wonderful bike, they're nice guys and they do excellent work. They don't have the degree of immediacy that I look for though.

If I had plans for another one - there's Carl, can't be beat. IF - well, I'm tired of the "we can't build one for you because you have a local dealer and we don't care if your local dealer is completely incompetent because we're going to support them to the point of losing a sale" schtick. So unless my local dealer gets dropped by IF, I'll never be straddling one. I'd probably consider a DeSalvo - I like his work and I'd probably consider a Kish for the same reason.

Then there are the cult bikes - Serotta and Seven. Nice and they come with a free philosophy. :D

If I ever decide to do another ti, almost certainly Carl will be the one.
This is off topic, sort of, sorry, anyways, but how would you compare the moots and the parlee you own, and your experinces with the company. Is your moots custom?
 

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eminence grease
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I didn't deal directly with either company, both bikes came from brian of champion cyclist who posts here on the board. Neither are custom.

Quality-wise, both are impeccable. Nicely executed.

Ride-wise, both are pretty stiff. The Parlee might be a notch less noisy when it comes to bad pavement. On good roads, hard to tell the difference. The Parlee is about 1/4 pound lighter at the frame level. The Parlee compares very favorably to both the Calfee and the C50 I own. I'd say I prefer it. The Moots compares nicely with the 3/2 Davidson I own, in fact I'd say I'd have a hard time telling them apart, both being built from the same tubing, albeit with no butting in the Moots.

Both great bikes.
 

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Cross Bike Collector.....
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Terry

terry b said:
What - have you even ridden that Moots yet?

My list - I have a Moots and it's great. I also have a Davidson, and this might be an interesting alternative for you, given your geographical situation. It's a wonderful bike, they're nice guys and they do excellent work. They don't have the degree of immediacy that I look for though.

If I had plans for another one - there's Carl, can't be beat. IF - well, I'm tired of the "we can't build one for you because you have a local dealer and we don't care if your local dealer is completely incompetent because we're going to support them to the point of losing a sale" schtick. So unless my local dealer gets dropped by IF, I'll never be straddling one. I'd probably consider a DeSalvo - I like his work and I'd probably consider a Kish for the same reason.

Then there are the cult bikes - Serotta and Seven. Nice and they come with a free philosophy. :D

If I ever decide to do another ti, almost certainly Carl will be the one.
I'm speaking hypothetically, of course.
 

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gastarbeiter
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does richard sachs do Ti?

if i had the cash & the patience, he'd be on the top of my list.

my rationale, which isn;t alltogether rational: i grew up not very far from where he works, even though the Atlantic separates me from there now :)

hell, even if he doesn't do Ti, I'd love to have one of his bikes one of these days.

Go Chester, CT! :D
 

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Bike Dude
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Nice fellow in San Diego area

I believe his first name is Bill (?), last name is Holland. You should see his rigs. Very nice. I think he still builds in steel as well. Don't confuse this guy with a Holland's Bike shop on Cornado California. Two completely different animals.
 

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Defender of Freedom...
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Boy this is hard...

b/c you could categorize based on quality of the product, customer service, and value. So I guess I'll rank mine each way.

Overall quality:
1. Moots: great welds, flawless execution.
2. Dean: wonderful welds, excellent product, innovative designs. Not #1 b/c nice touches such as head badges are options not standard.
3. IF: loved my IF. Quality was top notch as well. Not a big fan of the shot peened finish.
4. Seven: nice bikes!
5. DeSalvo: Great welds. Overall execution was impressive. Was only able to look at one so I can't vouch for ride quality and I'd want more that straight gauge tubes.

Customer service:
1. IF: Hands down the best I have dealt with.
2. DeSalvo: real interesting guy to speak with, really knows his stuff.
3. Dean: Some have had issues with them (long wait times,etc..) but I had a great experience.
4. Moots: Seemed real nice...
5. Seven: Ditto

Quality/value ratio:
1. Dean: pretty easy. I don't think any other high end Ti builder can touch the value and quality I seen from the guys at Boulder. You can go cheaper Douglas, Macalu, Jade, etc.. but they will likely be rebadged Lightspeeds and TSTs (nothing wrong with that).
2. DeSalvo: nice product for a reasonable price.
3. Moots: for the quality it's pricey but worth it.
4 & 5: Seven & IF: a Tie
 

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eminence grease
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I saw one of his bikes last year at The Tour of the Tucson Mountains. One of the nicest looking frames I've ever seen. I still want one, but he has a very long leadtime which conflicts deeply with my need for immediate gratification.
 

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Cross Bike Collector.....
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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
No Really,

terry b said:
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D


:rolleyes: sure you are. I speak hypothetically all the time. Like, 3 times a year.

Not in the market, I have my dream bike in the Moots. But Other than some of the bikes mentioned I haven't heard much else, I was hoping to get some leads on some not so well known great Builders, Desalvo is interesting, here's down I-5 in Ashland, There's Davidson 3 hrs north. I've seen some pics of Jim Kish's work, but never seen one in person. Too bad Sacha doesn't do Ti, living in Portland that would be the logical choice. If I didn't already have a Strong I'd go with Carl. Seven's and Serrotta's are nice, but not for me. Neither are Litespeeds, or Merlins. I've always kinds liked Titus, there Ti bikes are done in house, and their road market is small in comparison to their Mtn bikes. Uh I dunno, hoping to get some good feedback from members....... :confused:
 

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Phat&SlowVelo said:
Not in the market, I have my dream bike in the Moots. But Other than some of the bikes mentioned I haven't heard much else, I was hoping to get some leads on some not so well known great Builders, Desalvo is interesting, here's down I-5 in Ashland, There's Davidson 3 hrs north. I've seen some pics of Jim Kish's work, but never seen one in person. Too bad Sacha doesn't do Ti, living in Portland that would be the logical choice. If I didn't already have a Strong I'd go with Carl. Seven's and Serrotta's are nice, but not for me. Neither are Litespeeds, or Merlins. I've always kinds liked Titus, there Ti bikes are done in house, and their road market is small in comparison to their Mtn bikes. Uh I dunno, hoping to get some good feedback from members....... :confused:
Before you ask....AGAIN.....no, I don't have new wheels, yet, although I'm hoping to order a set of Assos bibs next week....and I'm gonna get a Ritchey 4 axis stem, tomorrow.

My list for Ti (Only #1 is ranked according to preference......you could throw a towel over the other 4 they're so close...)
1. Moots
2. Strong
3. Spectrum/Bill Holland
4. Paduano, just because it looks cool and is Eyetalian
5. IF

I couldn't buy a Seven or Serotta (whether it be CroMo, Ti, CF) because I just don't get on with bikes that come with a mandatory religion.

I'd also look at Kish....

TerryB.....I did, sort of, the Tour of Tucson Mtns ride today, with a leg added cuz of my domicile being in Oro Valley and the leg on Ajo being axed cuz I though the ride over Gates Pass would be muy cooler. Beautiful ride though....a great way to pass 70 miles in the saddle. 'twas my first time thru Saguarro Nat'l Park West (I've ridden in Saguarro Nat'l Park East a few times), and it is dead gorgeous....leaves no doubt as to why they named it as they did.
 

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Cross Bike Collector.....
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Damn Alien

alienator said:
Before you ask....AGAIN.....no, I don't have new wheels, yet, although I'm hoping to order a set of Assos bibs next week....and I'm gonna get a Ritchey 4 axis stem, tomorrow.

My list for Ti (Only #1 is ranked according to preference......you could throw a towel over the other 4 they're so close...)
1. Moots
2. Strong
3. Spectrum/Bill Holland
4. Paduano, just because it looks cool and is Eyetalian
5. IF

I couldn't buy a Seven or Serotta (whether it be CroMo, Ti, CF) because I just don't get on with bikes that come with a mandatory religion.

I'd also look at Kish....

TerryB.....I did, sort of, the Tour of Tucson Mtns ride today, with a leg added cuz of my domicile being in Oro Valley and the leg on Ajo being axed cuz I though the ride over Gates Pass would be muy cooler. Beautiful ride though....a great way to pass 70 miles in the saddle. 'twas my first time thru Saguarro Nat'l Park West (I've ridden in Saguarro Nat'l Park East a few times), and it is dead gorgeous....leaves no doubt as to why they named it as they did.
It's sog city here, and your riding that beautiful route? Talk about rubbing it in. Buy the way "did you get your wheels yet" Seriously tell me about Holland and Jim Kish?
 

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Phat&SlowVelo said:
It's sog city here, and your riding that beautiful route? Talk about rubbing it in. Buy the way "did you get your wheels yet" Seriously tell me about Holland and Jim Kish?
Well, look for yourself, compadre:

http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/

http://www.kishbike.com/ .

Holland is a master, and Kish is no slouch, himself.

....and yeah, I'm rubbing our beauteous weather into your sore flesh. I know you haven't got to pedal your Moots yet, so I thought it'd make you feel better to know that I've put 213 miles on mine in the last week....and 250 miles on it the week before. :p

Even though I may lust after TerryB's Parlee or I may secretly fantasize about committing a crime a against society to raise the dosh to buy a Spin frame, the sad fact is that I'm single bike at a time kind of guy. And I'm muy enjoying knocking boots w/ my Moots.
 

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Cross Bike Collector.....
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I here you brother......

alienator said:
Well, look for yourself, compadre:

http://www.spectrum-cycles.com/

http://www.kishbike.com/ .

Holland is a master, and Kish is no slouch, himself.

....and yeah, I'm rubbing our beauteous weather into your sore flesh. I know you haven't got to pedal your Moots yet, so I thought it'd make you feel better to know that I've put 213 miles on mine in the last week....and 250 miles on it the week before. :p

Even though I may lust after TerryB's Parlee or I may secretly fantasize about committing a crime a against society to raise the dosh to buy a Spin frame, the sad fact is that I'm single bike at a time kind of guy. And I'm muy enjoying knocking boots w/ my Moots.
I'll prob be buried with me Moots, Jim Kish has done some nice work, and not bad @ around $2100 for custom Ti. If I ever get another, he's on my "short list" as Terry would say.
Just do me a favor, you're killin me with those Bontragers. Mootsie deserves some Obermayers! i'm only 42, so I figure I got another 25 years of Moots Bliss..........
I can't wait to take her on the Historic Hwy 30. From Hood River to The Dalles, my favorite ride. Only it's pouring and the wind is about 30 to 40 mph gusts...........
 

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Phat&SlowVelo said:
Just do me a favor, you're killin me with those Bontragers. Mootsie deserves some Obermayers! i'm only 42, so I figure I got another 25 years of Moots Bliss..........
I can't wait to take her on the Historic Hwy 30. From Hood River to The Dalles, my favorite ride. Only it's pouring and the wind is about 30 to 40 mph gusts...........
Killing you? You ought to feel what they do to me. The ONLY thing that they have going for them is that they spin oh-so-well on the road, but that's because of the DT Swiss internals, not anything that Bontrager contributed. And I'll never forget just how unrideable they get when spokes suddenly lose tension (as in when the rear drive side hub flange goes all pear shaped.). The only good thing about their stupid spoke pattern is that it has more spokes than Rolf wheels.......so that's not saying much. And another reason to hate 'em is that like Seven and Serotta bikes, Bontrager crap comes with a religion. He's a lot like Grant at Rivendell, what with his written proclamations, except that he digs CF. Grant would like to dig CF.....dig CF a grave.

Hood River to the Dalles......how much elevation change is that? Have you done the Hood River around Mt. Hood and back to Hood River ride? From memory, it seems that route would have some bodacious elevation change, as well as some comely scenery.
 

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I did my research and am ending up with a Moots too, although Steve Hampsten tweaked the design for me to get the bike I want (I hope, its a couple more weeks until I see it...patience, patience...). Having spent an obscene amount of time looking for this bike, Ifeel that I made teh right choice. But if Moots weren't an option I would also have considered a ti bike from Bill Holland. Never talked to him, but have seen some pictures of his work on this and other forums and his frames look great. I believe he may be starting to work with the exogrid tubing Titus has been working with. Saw a pic of a Holland exogrid down tube...very nice. DeSalvo's frames look sweet too. I would definitely give Bill Holland a yell (or DeSalvo) if I was in the market for another ti bike, but I am hoping my Hampsten/Moots will be the last ti bike for a while. Now for a lugged steel...love that Spectrum 30th Anniversary and Sashas work and Dave Kirk's Terraplane and those Tournesols and ...

Vr,
SPG
 
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