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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is (1) my first post to this forum, and (2) partly conjecture since it has been a long time since I have been riding (I have not kept up closely with cycle technology), so be kind and don't hesitate to let me know when I am off-base.

I have a 40 year-old Schwinn World Voyager that I want to 'resurrect'. I'd like to build a set of wheels that are lighter and more aerodynamic than the originals and I want to maintain the use of the old drive train (I have both Shimano and Campy available already - and maybe Suntour but I don't count those).

Do people still ride sew-ups? Years ago I built a set of sew-up wheels to use on that bike and they worked great (really light for that time), but these days I understand that there are clinchers that are nearly as light and of course more reliable and less work if a flat occurs. So should I point myself toward the sew-ups again, or more modern clinchers (I realize that the sew-ups aren't really 'resurrecting' the Voyager)?

Either way, what are good middle-road rim brands and tires? Is Mavic still in business? I thought I saw their cars on the TDF last week. Who are the other main-line rim and tire people these days?

Thanks,
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Because back in those days Suntour was really the bottom of the barrel, and I suspect that any Suntour hardware I had from back then is still pretty low-end. But why do you ask?
 

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Hi Tom, welcome to this forum.

don't hesitate to let me know when I am off-base.
Most regulars are off-base around here so you'll fit right in PDQ :D

The only people that still ride sew-ups are the died-in-the wool traditionalists (aka; masochists) and higher end racers. The rest of us use high pressure clinchers, even for racing, ranging from 23-25-28mm width, depending on your needs - mostly bodyweight and/or terrain. Wider tires (most of us use the 25mm width) give a better ride because they allow lower pressures (say 70-100psi).

Because this type of tire and its rim is the most popular, lots of development has gone into these tires and rims. Rims are light-years better than you remember. I've been into cycling (the racy end) and used sew-ups and their rims for 26 years. I wouldn't go back if they were free.

The problem you're going to run into if you want to use your old Schwinn is the rear dropout spacing (and hub width). Your stuff will be 125mm and the current standard is 130mm stuff. Yes it's possible to cold set a steel frame but you have lots of other ancient stuff on that bike. I don't know anyone who makes modern 125mm wide hubs. You old wheels will be 36/36 spokes (32/32 if the wheels are really racy!) and now, unless you need to carry loads (big body, full bags) they are way overkill. 24/28 spokes are probably the most popular. There are 32 & 36h rims and they're very readily available if you want to re-build your old wheels. Spokes are much better than they used to be too and Sapim and DT are the two top brands. Get "double butted".

Yes Mavic is still around but they put no effort into modernizing their aftermarket rims and other companies have left them in the dust. Their main thrust is pre-built wheelsets (with proprietary parts) and the people on this forum (mostly) are not fans. You can do much better.
 

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Because back in those days Suntour was really the bottom of the barrel, and I suspect that any Suntour hardware I had from back then is still pretty low-end. But why do you ask?
Because SunTour made some pretty good equipment. Superbe and Superbe Pro was some Top Shelf stuff.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/suntour.html

They held their prices down, which allowed bicycle manufacturers to put their components on lesser quality frames, creating the illusion of those components being of lesser quality than they were.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hi Tom, welcome to this forum.

Most regulars are off-base around here so you'll fit right in PDQ :D

The only people that still ride sew-ups are the died-in-the wool traditionalists (aka; masochists) and higher end racers. The rest of us use high pressure clinchers, even for racing, ranging from 23-25-28mm width, depending on your needs - mostly bodyweight and/or terrain. Wider tires (most of us use the 25mm width) give a better ride because they allow lower pressures (say 70-100psi).

Because this type of tire and its rim is the most popular, lots of development has gone into these tires and rims. Rims are light-years better than you remember. I've been into cycling (the racy end) and used sew-ups and their rims for 26 years. I wouldn't go back if they were free.

The problem you're going to run into if you want to use your old Schwinn is the rear dropout spacing (and hub width). Your stuff will be 125mm and the current standard is 130mm stuff. Yes it's possible to cold set a steel frame but you have lots of other ancient stuff on that bike. I don't know anyone who makes modern 125mm wide hubs. You old wheels will be 36/36 spokes (32/32 if the wheels are really racy!) and now, unless you need to carry loads (big body, full bags) they are way overkill. 24/28 spokes are probably the most popular. There are 32 & 36h rims and they're very readily available if you want to re-build your old wheels. Spokes are much better than they used to be too and Sapim and DT are the two top brands. Get "double butted".

Yes Mavic is still around but they put no effort into modernizing their aftermarket rims and other companies have left them in the dust. Their main thrust is pre-built wheelsets (with proprietary parts) and the people on this forum (mostly) are not fans. You can do much better.
Haha Mike! Thanks.
And thanks for the great info. So are there any specific brands that I should be considering for the 25mm wide clinchers and good rims (and are they aluminum or composite).

I was expecting to use old hubs (I've got good old hubs in both high-flange and low-flange configurations, and old freewheels - that still work great), so the stay-spread shouldn't be an issue unless there is some technicality that I am missing.

As i mentioned before I've built wheels before and back in those days the issue was whether to use 3x (stiff) or 4x (soft) configs, but as I see straight radials on the front these days (24 spokes?) they will be significantly shorter that the old builds. Thanks for mention the spoke brands. I think the last wheels I built were with Arc-n-ciel rims (the rainbow label).

Thanks again Mike.
Tom
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Because SunTour made some pretty good equipment. Superbe and Superbe Pro was some Top Shelf stuff.

http://www.sheldonbrown.com/suntour.html

They held their prices down, which allowed bicycle manufacturers to put their components on lesser quality frames, creating the illusion of those components being of lesser quality than they were.
Thanks Velodog. I'll have to take inventory of my stuff, but I don't think that my Suntour equipment was their top end. I appreciate the link.
 

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Haha Mike! Thanks.
And thanks for the great info. So are there any specific brands that I should be considering for the 25mm wide clinchers and good rims (and are they aluminum or composite).

I was expecting to use old hubs (I've got good old hubs in both high-flange and low-flange configurations, and old freewheels - that still work great), so the stay-spread shouldn't be an issue unless there is some technicality that I am missing.

As i mentioned before I've built wheels before and back in those days the issue was whether to use 3x (stiff) or 4x (soft) configs, but as I see straight radials on the front these days (24 spokes?) they will be significantly shorter that the old builds. Thanks for mention the spoke brands. I think the last wheels I built were with Arc-n-ciel rims (the rainbow label).

Thanks again Mike.
Tom
One of the best resources for wheelbuilding parts is the incomparable Brandon at BikeHubStore.com. He's the prince of wheel parts. Check out his rims. Kinlin are inexpensive and good and he's got all price levels. He can advise (as can we). Do some reading.

4x is totally old school and not (normally) seen anymore. 3x is the norm on higher spoke wheels with 2x for lesser spoke wheels (it's all down to the hub exit angle and spoke head interference) with radial being very popular for front wheels. I do all mine radial and just did a 2x/1x rear combo for myself.

Most rims are aluminum with high end racy wheels being carbon - but good carbon rims range from about $400 to $800 or so (each). Cheap Chinese stuff has a spotty rep. But carbon rims on you bike would be like a turbo V6 in a Model A. Good rims are $40 - $140 with the low end prices (on name-brand stuff) being just fine.

BTW - read my site for much wheel general info. Ask questions.
 

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An excellent rim that would go well with your Voyager is the H+Son TB14 in polished aluminum. Very high quality at a modest cost.
 

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How could that rim possibly be considered aerodynamic?

I think TS should just get some DT Swiss R460 rims.
They tick all his boxes, and are still very reasonably priced.

Include some DT Swiss Competition spokes and nipples, and he should be all set for about $115. (at bike24.com, shipping included)
 

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How could that rim possibly be considered aerodynamic?)
The rim matches well the 32 or 36 spokes the OP is using. It is relatively light (even with today's stds) and also goes very well with the period the bike belongs to.

Unless one plans to use the wheel to run aero tests in a wind tunnel, over 80% of the aero gains while riding the bike come from the rider's posture and frontal area. Less than 1/3, if I recall correctly, of the remaining gains come from the wheel spoke/rim/tire combo. For an athlete this is huge when he competes but not so huge when he trains.

Wheel aero performance is real but in order to be important all the other boxes need to be checked off first.😏
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks guys, It just dawned on me that the spoke count is going to be driven by the hubs I use (DUH!) and I'm pretty sure those hubs have 32 or 36 spoke holes (I didn't think to count them). So obviously whatever rims I choose will have to match the hub count. Thanks for reminding me of this! I'm glad I didn't rush into this. This may limit my 'modernization,'

I don't have a truing stand anymore, so one of my first acquisitions will be that.

Thanks again all...
 

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TS asked for lighter and more aerodynamic.

Explain how the tb14 is lighter and more aerodynamic than the R460.
 

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Thanks guys, It just dawned on me that the spoke count is going to be driven by the hubs I use (DUH!) and I'm pretty sure those hubs have 32 or 36 spoke holes (I didn't think to count them). So obviously whatever rims I choose will have to match the hub count. Thanks for reminding me of this! I'm glad I didn't rush into this. This may limit my 'modernization,'
If you had read my posts on this topic you would realize that most rims (most rims that you would be considering anyway) would come in 32 and 36.
"There are 32 & 36h rims and they're very readily available"
Tread lightly - if you didn't realize you have to consider hub spoke count then there will be lots of other pitfalls too.

I don't have a truing stand anymore, so one of my first acquisitions will be that.
You don't need a wheelstand. Read my site!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
You've got a great site Mike, especially for beginners and foregetters! Why didn't you tell me about this before? (You did actually, but it was in your sig, and I rarely read sigs since most valuable info is in the body and who it came from - at the top).

Thanks again
 

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You've got a great site Mike, especially for beginners and foregetters! Why didn't you tell me about this before? (You did actually, but it was in your sig, and I rarely read sigs since most valuable info is in the body and who it came from - at the top).
Thanks again
When you've been doing it as long as I have, it gets a wee bit repetitive (and tedious) putting a link in the message body. You will be missing out by not clicking others' sigs too.
 
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