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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A 2004 56cm. Trek Madone was posted to the classified section of this site yesterday. I sent an email to the poster to see what it's all about.

I did a Google Image Search for "TREK MADONE 5.9 2004" and the exact image floated to the top of the results. The image was originally part of an auction on mercadolibre.com that didn't seem to sell (the description, although in Spanish, seemed identical). The seller was asking $1700 in December for this bike. The account used was created 6 months before and has no feedback.

I would love to have this bike for this price (who wouldn't?), but I don't want to be taken for a fool. What is your take on this? Right now, my instincts are telling me to stay away. It would be nice to have some more objective feedback.

I'll post updates when I can.

Here is the transcript as it stands now:

From: "Jack Perez" [email protected]
Date: April 24, 2006 2:45:04 PM EDT
To: "Boegner, Martin E."
Subject: Re: Madone for sale on RoadBikeReview.com

Marty i apreciate you want to deal with me but like you said cod will take to long. I don`t have a paypal account and i don`t know how it works. If you can`t trust me and send the 500$ after i ship the bike then we can`t deal. You will send the money only after UPS will email you and confirm that the bike is coming to you.
If you can`t accept my offer then we can`t deal.
Thanks anyway

"Boegner Jr. Martin" wrote:
On Apr 24, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Jack Perez wrote:
> I don`t have any other pics of the bike. If you can`t trust me i
> don`t know how we can make the deal. I can`t just ship the bike to
> you without having anything.

And, likewise, I can't just send you $750 without having anything.

I have a new child now, and my wife is staying home to care for him,
which means we are down to one income (with more expenses). I must be
extra careful with purchases like this now (it was tough enough to
get the OK from my wife for $1500;-).

You originally said I could send you half up front, then half upon
receipt. This is tough because if something should happen, I could
still be out $750. I suggested a C.O.D. for 2/3 which means that you
are guaranteed to get more money shortly after shipment, then the
remaining 1/3 (plus other costs) would be sent to you any way you
choose (PayPal is a quick option). I would be guaranteed to get the
bike you advertised and would gladly send you the remainder. I see
that the URL link in my previous email for UPS C.O.D. was truncated,
here is the correct link:
select/sending/options/cod.html> I apologize for my sloppy copy/
paste. I would be happy to hand over a certified check or MO (or any
other instrument of currency) to the UPS guy when the package would
be delivered and initially inspected. I believe this C.O.D. process
only takes a few days. I am anxious enough to get a bike like this.

From my end, this is a win-win situation. I was unaware of a time
constraint on your end, you originally mentioned the desire to use
the funds to purchase a Colnago. If speed of transaction is a big
concern for you, we could C.O.D. the shipment for $500 and I could
send the remainder to your PayPal account within 12 hours. The funds
will appear in your PayPal account much faster than the C.O.D. will
get back to you.

I'm a bit concerned that you don't have any other pictures of the
bike. How were the original pictures taken? They appear to be from a
digital camera. Couldn't you just use that camera again? Or borrow
one from a friend for a brief time?

I also just spoke to a friend of mine who works at a local Trek
dealer. He informed me that the frame and fork warranty only covers
the original owner, although sometimes they will do a crash
replacement for cost if the original receipt can be produced. Could
the receipt be included in this transaction? This would not
necessarily be a deal-breaker.

I believe the C.O.D. route to be the safest for all involved. If you
don't believe this, than I'm afraid we don't have a deal.

Again, I hope you understand my skepticism. There are too many people
out there who make a nefarious living from ill-conceived transactions
similar to this. I'm just trying my best to not be a part of that,
while making the transaction as easy for you as I can.

You may call me tomorrow if you wish. I'll be available most of today
as well, although I'm going for a ride on my old steel bike around
4:30 this afternoon, so I may not answer the phone right away.

I still hope we can salvage a deal from this.


M a r t y



On Apr 24, 2006, at 1:54 PM, Jack Perez wrote:

> Marty,I can call you tomorrow to talk.
> I don`t have any other pics of the bike. If you can`t trust me i
> don`t know how we can make the deal. I can`t just ship the bike to
> you without having anything.
> It looks fair for me if i ship the bike and in the same day you
> send at least 500$.After you inspect the bike you will send the
> rest of the money.
> If we use COD it will take too long. I need some money this week to
> pay my trip.
>
> "Boegner Jr. Martin" wrote:
> Jack,
>
> I trust that you understand my caution here, I have never bought
> something this large from someone I have never met.
>
> Could I speak to you by phone? My work contact information is below
> (my cell phone no. is xxx.xxx.xxxx), and I would be more than happy
> to call you if you provide a number so you don't have to pay the long
> distance charges.
>
> Would you email me two detail photos of the bike? I'm really
> interested in seeing the stem and headset up close and the brake/
> shifter hoods. It looks like this bike was for sale on
> mercadolibre.com (but didn't sell) back in December, and I would like
> to see a few more detail shots to set my mind at ease.
>
> Could we proceed with a COD transaction through UPS? I will pick up
> any additional charges incurred (may be as little as $8.50). How
> about a UPS COD for $1000 then the remainder ($500 + s/h and COD
> charges) via your choice after I inspect the bike for 24 hours. Here
> is some information on UPS' C.O.D.
> resources/select/sending/options/cod.html>
>
> Would you pack the bike yourself? Can you explain a bit about how you
> would protect the bike during shipment?
>
> Again, I hope you understand my trepidation for this transaction.
> This is a lovely bike. Unfortunately, a few scammers on the internet
> have ruined it for the rest of us who want to do legitimate and fair
> business. I want to make this transaction as easy for you as I can,
> while providing myself with some protection.
>
> Thanks for your quick response and I look forward to the new pictures
> and I am also looking forward to speaking with you in person if you
> don't mind.
>
>
> M a r t y
>
>
> PS- I can understand why you are looking at a Colnago. They are
> absolutely beautiful and have a reputation among riders to match!
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 24, 2006, at 12:41 PM, Jack Perez wrote:
>
> > Hi Marty,
> > I still have the bike.The shipping will be under 100$.
> > I will ship the bike to you by UPS and i will also insure the
> package.
> > About the money i think the best way is to send only half of the
> > money after i send the bike and UPS confirms the shippment and the
> > other half after you receive the bike and you inspect it.
> > The only reason i`m selling the bike is my height. I`m only 5'5 and
> > and the bike is big for me.I recently found a nice Colnago which
> > fits me and i will be glad if i can buy it.
> > Let me know what you think about my offer.
> > Thanks
> >
> > "Boegner Jr. Martin" wrote:
> > Jack,
> >
> > OK, I'm definitely interested. If you still have the bike, how would
> > the transaction proceed? Is there a way we can both be assured of a
> > safe transaction? I am most interested in safely getting the
> $1500 to
> > you, and I am equally interested in receiving this bike.
> >
> > If you don't mind my asking, why are you selling this bike?
> >
> > Thanks in advance, and I look forward to working with you.
> >
> >
> > M a r t y
> >
> >
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Just couldn't do it

Here's my conclusion:


Begin forwarded message:

From: "Boegner Jr. Martin"
Date: April 24, 2006 3:54:40 PM EDT
To: Jack Perez [email protected]
Subject: Fwd: Madone for sale on RoadBikeReview.com

Jack,

My apologies, I assumed you had a PayPal account because it looked like this auction accepted it:

<http://articulo.mercadolibre.com.mx/MLM-9024065-TREK-MADONE-59-56CM-2004-Armstrongs-Tour-Bike-_JM>

The pictures and description there are identical to your posting in the RoadBikeReview.com classifieds, so I just assumed it was you. I never thought that you may have actually purchased the bike from there, tried it for a while, then decided to sell it because it didn't fit. Again, I apologize.

The sense of haste in your emails, lack of cooperation on the new pictures, unwillingnoees to answer other questions that I had (shipping/packaging, etc.), and insistence on just 'trusting' you gives me a bad feeling on this transaction. Unfortunately, this feeling is a result of the day and age we live in. The internet makes it easier than ever to connect buyers and sellers, but it also makes it easier than ever for some people to prey upon the good nature and misplaced 'trust' of others. There will be no deal between you and I.

Your RBR classified posting has seen over 500 page views. I'm sure that you have had other offers and I hope that one may work out between you and someone else who is more 'trusting.' I cannot do a deal with the terms you outlined below.

Thanks again for your prompt response and I wish you the best of luck.


M a r t y




From: "Jack Perez" [email protected]
Date: April 24, 2006 2:45:04 PM EDT
To: "Boegner, Martin E."
Subject: Re: Madone for sale on RoadBikeReview.com

Marty i apreciate you want to deal with me but like you said cod will take to long. I don`t have a paypal account and i don`t know how it works. If you can`t trust me and send the 500$ after i ship the bike then we can`t deal. You will send the money only after UPS will email you and confirm that the bike is coming to you.
If you can`t accept my offer then we can`t deal.
Thanks anyway
 

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Glad I checked this as well

Jack,

How can you trust me to send the money after you ship the bike?

You are assuming a lot of risk by sending the bike, and hoping I send the money order. What if I decided to protect myself and waited until the bike was received, inspected, and then sent the money? Or worse, just chose to not send the money at all.

And I am assuming a great deal of risk to hope you are sending the pictured bike, in stated condition, and packed properly. It would not take much effort to pack anything from rocks to scrap metal in a box, send it UPS, get a confirmation number, and then ask me to wire money.

Western Union says:
***************
Make sure you know to whom you are sending money. Only transfer money to someone you know personally or whose identity you can verify!

If you are purchasing goods or services and paying through the Western Union network, it is your responsibility to verify the reputation and legitimacy of the seller. Western Union is not responsible for the non-receipt or quality of any goods or services. [/I][/I]

Ask yourself: - Who is this person? - Does this money have to be sent immediately? - Does this offer sound too good to be true?
***************


Now, no offense Jack, but I cannot think of a way to verify your identity, reputation, or legitimacy. Maybe I am overlooking something, and you could think of a way to verify your legitimacy.

And Road Bike Review has many scam alerts for using Western Union as well.

It also seems several other interested buyers on road bike review do not wish to do the western union deal with you.

It seems quite suspicious to me that you are not willing to use a PayPal account to protect both yourself and I.

So unless something changes, you are correct that I cannot trust you,
-paul



On 4/26/06, Jack Perez [email protected] wrote:
Paul if you can`t trust me then i`m not sure if we can do the deal.
If you feel more comfortable you can send me only half of the money in the same day i ship the bike and UPS confirms the shipment and the other half after you receive and inspect the bike.It sounds fair for me.
This is the best i can do.
Let me know you final decision
Thanks

Paul <> wrote:
Checking the Western Union website, even they do not recommend using a wire transfer for a transaction such as this.

If you are not willing to use Paypal, do you have any other suggestions/alternatives?

thanks,
-paul


On 4/26/06, Jack Perez [email protected] wrote:
i`m not interesting in a paypal deal.sorry


Paul < > wrote:
Jack,

Sounds good,

I would feel much more comfortable using PayPal for this transaction.
https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=xpt/cps/general/Shopwoutshare-outside

I sent you a note through their system,

thanks, -paul


On 4/26/06, Jack Perez [email protected] wrote:
Hi Paul,
I will send all the manuals.I buyed the bike new from a bike shop in Canada.I don`t have the receipt anymore but i spent around 3500$ for it.I can send you my cleats if you want because i will buy new one for the new bike.
Let me know if you need any more info
Thanks

Paul <> wrote:
Jack,

I definitely want the bike, and I have a couple more questions.

Do you have the manuals, and if so could you send them as well?

Did you buy the bike new or used, and where from? Is it possible to see a copy of the reciept?

It comes with the pedals, but my cleats don't match. Could matching cleats be included?

I'm ready to conduct this transaction, but I just want to feel a bit more confortable about some things.

Thanks,
-paul


On 4/26/06, Jack Perez [email protected] wrote:
I prefer a Western Union money transfere which is faster.


Paul < > wrote:
Jack,

I'm interested. How would you want the payment to work, check?

Thanks,
paul


On 4/25/06, Jack Perez [email protected] wrote:
Hi Paul,
I`m sure it will fit because one of my friends has 5'10 and the bike is ok for him.I can ship the bike to you by UPS and you will send me the money after the shipment is made and UPS sends you the confirmation.Let me know if you are interested.
Thanks

Paul <> wrote:
Jack,

I live in Georgia, and I'm definitely interested in the bike.

I'm 5'11" tall, do you think that would fit me?

Thanks,
-paul

On 4/25/06, Jack Perez [email protected] wrote:
Hi Paul,
The bike is still for sale. I`m selling it because it`s too big for me.
Are you interested? Also where are you located?
Thanks


Paul < > wrote:
Hello Jack,

I'm interested in the Trek Madone you have for sale on Road Bike Review.

I was wondering why you are selling the bike?

Thanks,
Paul
 
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