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Amen to that!

Amen to that, Bocephus! That diet is such a load of bullcrap! :mad:

I can't stand seeing all the junk on TV and all the celebrities who use Atkin's saying how great that diet is. I wish I could afford to do an infomercial to show how dumb the Atkin's actually is and instead show how important exercise is to the equation. Only problem is that the Atkin's diet does work and that's why it's so popular. The problem with it is that it screws with your TCA Cycle. In my opinion, anything that messes with your metabolism is not worth it when the same results can be seen by dedicating yourself to an exercise program while practicing healthy eating patterns.

And why pizza is getting a bad rap is just beyond me. Pizza is great! It has carbohydrates, calcium, protein, and fat (not the best fat always, but still) among other things. BUT, everyone eats WAY to much of it and then blames the weight gain on the carbs, not on their lack of motivation to do something about their lifestyle.

Atkins is evil that works, but just how it works is also evil. There is nothing good about Atkins except that it can get you over that hump to weight loss. Maybe using it as a starting point would be great just to get the motivation to loose more weight...and I mean starting point as in 1-2 weeks TOPS...not for months and months like people usually do.

That article is proof that our overweight nationis still looking for the "quick fix" when it's been staring them in the face for centuries. Physical activity is the key, but I don't know what it's going to take to get people/media/celebrities to see that and to change their minds.

Just my two cents
;)



Bocephus Jones said:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/diet.fitness/02/03/lowcarb.pizza.ap/index.html

This ain't pizza folks...this is crap. Proof that the Atkins fad is evil.
 

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Hmm... Pizza. It's what to eat in the offseason.

This is just as stupid as low carb (or low fat) candy, ice cream, milk shakes, etc..

It's junk food. Either don't eat it, or indulge (once in a while) and enjoy the real thing.

Ben
 

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Glad to see that at least the cyclist population doesn't seem to be falling for this Atkin's craze. Like Ben said, it's junk food and you have the choice to eat it, but that's the beauty of being a cyclist. We probably all train enough to "enjoy" ourselves every once in a while ;0)

It just sucks to see inactive people "enjoying" themselves too while not participating in any regular activity (or the appropriate activity). They're the ones who fall for this "magic pill" (i.e. Atkins) to weight loss. How the hell are they going to be able to exercise (assuming they actually do eventually start) when their carbohydrate stores are so low and their bodies have turned to only using fat and ketone bodies for energy production. I can tell you right now, they won't be the fast ones in the peloton and certainly won't be winning any sprints.
 

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hmmm, just started Atkins

Actually, me and GF just started Atkins this week. We're both active (running and biking clubs) and not even overweight really (uh, 5' 8" and 176 and 5' 5" and 125?). Probably combined, we'd like to lose maybe 25 pounds total.

Anyway, just read the whole book and there really isnt anything in there about the active types. He says there will be lots of energy on Atkins. I was passing out asleep the other night for lack of carbs. Supposedly that passes after a few days.

I guess no one here knows if Atkins works for the avid rider, but if you have any personal experience on energy loss/gain with low carb diets, I'd like to hear about it.
 

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That passing out that you were doing because of a lack of carbohydrate is because your body needs carbs for nearly every bodily function. The brain alone relies almost 100% on carbohydrates (up to 150 grams/day) for energy. The liver needs carbohydrate stores for success in endurance exercise. When your stored liver glycogen (and muscle glycogen) is gone, your body has no other place to turn to for energy besides muscular triglyceride (fat) stores, and perhaps eventually protein.

That's the reason why nothing is in the Atkins book about active people...it's not good for you guys. I mean, if you can stand not having carbs for the first week or so, then your body will adapt and you'll loose the weight, but I would bet the farm that you won't perform as well as you like in a race, etc.

Carbohydrate is your bodies quickest source of energy for activity (besides ATP/PC), and then comes fat and protein. Carbohydrate is extremely available and breaks down quickly through glycolysis. If you pretty much rid your body of carbohydrate, you're going to feel tired and will be passing out because your body is now lacking it's most important quick energy source. Once you deplete that, it has nothing else to rely on other than fat and protein. So it turns to fat. Your body goes into a ketotic (using ketone bodies for energy) state and this puts a lot of stress on your liver and kidneys (especially the kidneys). It backs up your TCA Cycle (another cycle used for producing energy), and anything that messes with your metabolism like that can't be good.

Just out of curiosity, how did you guys come up with the 25 pound weight loss? How much are you trying to loose individually?

As for having lots of energy on Atkins, I'm not sure about that. But like anything, your bodies will adapt. That's the beauty of the human body - its ability to adapt to different situations. The problem is that you shouldn't have to make your body adapt to using only fat as an energy source, especially if you're a cyclist. You absolutely need carbs in your diet to act as a quick energy source, and if you eat the right type of carbs and eat everything else in the right amount, then you can easily loose weight without having to artificially change your metabolism.
 

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There is a simple way to lose weight....burn more calories than you eat. At 5'3" about 10 years ago, I was 200 pounds. In college, I started walking and cutting back on junk food like candy, cakes, and fried foods. I lost about 40 pounds. Soon after that college graduation in 96, I got into cycling and was quickly bitten by the racing bug. Within a year and a half, I'd dropped another 30 pounds and was down to about 130. (final weight of 125 but impossible to hold that weight). After a few months of going up and down, my body settled down to 135 for a few years. Last year, I let my "diet" lapse and started eating too much junk again. I gained about 8 pounds, which I've lost again since Sept. Once again, just no junk food. Plenty of food, not all of it good...just no candy, cake, cookies, ice cream, or sweets. I do allow myself one "free" weekend a month to eat whatever crap I want, so that I don't feel deprived. Special occasions like Christmas and Valentine's Day are also "free" days. I also have chosen to eat a lower fat diet that is high in carbs. As a former vegetarian, I don't eat much meat to begin with. I also have a family history of heart disease and heart attacks, so I really watch my trans fat and hydrogenated fat intake. The latter is easy to do; buy organic snack foods instead of traditional snack foods like Lays or Doritos.

It's really all about the math--burn more calories than you eat.
 

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Woohoo! I lvoe this discussion!

You hit the nail on the head. It's all about the caloric equation -

calories in = calories out --> you maintain your weight
calories in > calories out --> you gain weight
calories in < calories out --> you loose weight

simple as that. Atkins sucks, exercise is good, and that's it. :)

I wish everyone thought like you did, Sadlebred! We would have a fit, healthy nation and all those friggin' infomercial companies would be out of business!


Sadlebred said:
There is a simple way to lose weight....burn more calories than you eat. At 5'3" about 10 years ago, I was 200 pounds. In college, I started walking and cutting back on junk food like candy, cakes, and fried foods. I lost about 40 pounds. Soon after that college graduation in 96, I got into cycling and was quickly bitten by the racing bug. Within a year and a half, I'd dropped another 30 pounds and was down to about 130. (final weight of 125 but impossible to hold that weight). After a few months of going up and down, my body settled down to 135 for a few years. Last year, I let my "diet" lapse and started eating too much junk again. I gained about 8 pounds, which I've lost again since Sept. Once again, just no junk food. Plenty of food, not all of it good...just no candy, cake, cookies, ice cream, or sweets. I do allow myself one "free" weekend a month to eat whatever crap I want, so that I don't feel deprived. Special occasions like Christmas and Valentine's Day are also "free" days. I also have chosen to eat a lower fat diet that is high in carbs. As a former vegetarian, I don't eat much meat to begin with. I also have a family history of heart disease and heart attacks, so I really watch my trans fat and hydrogenated fat intake. The latter is easy to do; buy organic snack foods instead of traditional snack foods like Lays or Doritos.

It's really all about the math--burn more calories than you eat.
 

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Aktins is the latest panacea for the gullible.

More exercise and better food choices is the key, as stated here. But, personal resposibility never sells well.

Last winter after a month off due to a pulled muscle in my back (shoveling fricken snow- Oy, I must be getting old. . .) and excessive food related good times my weight went up to 198. Ouch. After alot of road miles and suffering to get back in shape (and homemade fruit smoothies with Endurox rather then big dinners twice a week after rides) my weight was down to 189. With continued training and reasonable food choices (I still eat pizza, burritos and drink beer though- just not every night), my weight is at 184-185 and my body fat is pretty good for a 36 year old. I signed up with CTS and am training hard this off-season too. My new goal is around 182 with a lower body fat percentage- that will help alot on the climbs. This year I plan on handing out some suffering on the group rides (and then getting it back at the races- circle of life and all. . . ).

:D
 

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It isn't for 'Active Types'

Andy C said:
...and not even overweight really...

I guess no one here knows if Atkins works for the avid rider, but if you have any personal experience on energy loss/gain with low carb diets, I'd like to hear about it.
Do a bit more research or ask your doctor. Actually, just go for a ride!
 

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sounds like you read the book

You summed it up pretty much like the Atkins book, good analysis.

I have to confess, Im more doing it because shes doing it, and since we eat a lot of meals together, its easier to do the diet together. Id like to lose about 10 pounds and she, perhaps, 15 or so. You're right about the books target audience, too. Its totally written for the obese, the compulsive eaters, and the desperate. But I know one guy who did Atkins while he was adventure racing. He said he lost lots of weight and carbed up before training or a race and was okay.

You might already know, there is a two week "induction" phase in which only 20 grams of carbs are permitted per day. Then its increased gradually until weight is maintainable. For now, Im forced into vegetables I wouldnt normally look at, which is a trait I hope to keep. But I suspect that I'll go back to a more convensional diet as time goes on. Lets just call this an experiment. BTW, we had bacon wrapped portobello mushrooms and cheese omlets for dinner last night and were craving fruit or something after. Felt kinda gross, too.

Im riding today, all weekend. Will post back with thoughts/impressions regarding diet and energy if anyone's interested.
 

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rkohler said:
Glad to see that at least the cyclist population doesn't seem to be falling for this Atkin's craze. Like Ben said, it's junk food and you have the choice to eat it, but that's the beauty of being a cyclist. We probably all train enough to "enjoy" ourselves every once in a while ;0)

It just sucks to see inactive people "enjoying" themselves too while not participating in any regular activity (or the appropriate activity). They're the ones who fall for this "magic pill" (i.e. Atkins) to weight loss. How the hell are they going to be able to exercise (assuming they actually do eventually start) when their carbohydrate stores are so low and their bodies have turned to only using fat and ketone bodies for energy production. I can tell you right now, they won't be the fast ones in the peloton and certainly won't be winning any sprints.
My mom is constantly harping on me for "eating too many carbs." I finally just told her "enough." I don't care what the newest fad diet is, I've been happy with eating less and exercising more since the late 80s.

I'm not as diligent as I could be. I like junk food: hamburgers, french fries, etc. I have ice cream Fri and Sat nights and that's it. The rest of the time, I usually don't eat Twinkies and Ho-Hos, etc.

Could I eat better? Yup. More veggies, fewer french fries would be a start.
Do I really WANT to? Well, maybe.

Moderation in all things is good...

Mike
 

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Exercise & Moderation!

rkohler said:
You hit the nail on the head. It's all about the caloric equation -

calories in = calories out --> you maintain your weight
calories in > calories out --> you gain weight
calories in < calories out --> you loose weight

simple as that. Atkins sucks, exercise is good, and that's it. :)

I wish everyone thought like you did, Sadlebred! We would have a fit, healthy nation and all those friggin' infomercial companies would be out of business!
Way to go Saddlebred! A great inspiration to those who struggle with weight issues & you can sock it to the Subway Jared along with the infomercial crowds like Tony Little.

Every one should exercise in one form or another, lifting a fork to your mouth does not count as exercise. As much as I exercise, weight training (5''-7", 153lbs) all year & ride in spring/summer/fall (too much snow/ice/hidden potholes/dumb drivers in a Montreal, Canada winter), I try to eat healthy but still, I cheat a little otherwise I can't do it. Can't beat beer & chips during the Super Bowl, a milkshake on a hot day, pizza & beer after playing hockey, hamburgers & fries after a CX race. Priceless.

If everyone was to eat in moderation as opposed to SUPER-SIZE junk food, then America would be a healthier looking nation, & by extension, so would Canada. Everyone has seen this, people who order EVERYTHING on the menu & then, a diet drink. I really don't understand the diet drink part. Might as well get a normal soda because it's wwaaaayyyy to late!
 

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Andy C said:
I guess no one here knows if Atkins works for the avid rider, but if you have any personal experience on energy loss/gain with low carb diets, I'd like to hear about it.
Both my GF and I have been on Atkins for 18 months. I have lost about 45 lbs and am now at 175 lbs at 5'11". Initially I did feel I had much energy, but now I can ride for significantly longer times at a much higher heart rate than when I was doing the low-fat (hogh carb) thing. I was worried about bonking on long rides due to running out of carb stores, but that never happened. I believe that I am burning more fats at higher energy outputs than previously.

I know that I am not the only cyclist who has reduced carbs and improved performance. I was reading the book "The Paleo Diet" by Loren Cordain, and it contains quotes from Joe Friel (author of numerous training books for cyclist and triathletes) on his results on the lower carb Paleo Diet. He too had loss of energy for the first two weeks. During the third week, he felt much better and in the forth week he trained for a longer time than he had in ten years. Without going off this diet, Joe finished third at the U.S. national championship and qualified for the U.S. team for the World Championships. He says that he had a stellar season, one of his best in years. He continues on the diet to this day.

Once your body adjusts from a carb burning machine to a fat burning machine, I am sure that you will be pleased with your cycling performance.
 

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Initially I did feel I had much energy, but now I can ride for significantly longer times at a much higher heart rate than when I was doing the low-fat (hogh carb) thing. I was worried about bonking on long rides due to running out of carb stores, but that never happened. I believe that I am burning more fats at higher energy outputs than previously.

During the third week, he felt much better and in the forth week he trained for a longer time than he had in ten years. Without going off this diet, Joe finished third at the U.S. national championship and qualified for the U.S. team for the World Championships. He says that he had a stellar season, one of his best in years.

That raises another question as well. With these low-carb diets, you have to wonder how controlled the "study" was for that person or group of people to all of a sudden feel better after two weeks. We all know what we're supposed to feel after being on those diets for a few weeks, but how much of it is due to a placebo effect and/or a training effect (whether we're training better or harder) seems to be unknown.

The one place that I find to be a sticky spot is the burning fat at higher intensities. Your body can only efficiently burn fat up to a certian point, and beyond that point it absolutely has to burn carbohydrate (with some fat still being used, but not nearly as much as at lower intensities) to be able to fuel the muscles as quickly as they need the energy. When you're cycling along at a leisurely or endurance-type pace, you're primarily burning fat, and maybe with those low-carb diets you can see your body become better at burning the fat (maybe more efficient?). But as you increase the intensity (i.e. the respiratory quotient gets closer to 1.00 and especially above), then your body has no choice but to switch to using mainly carbohydrate for fuel for the simple reason that it's able to be metabolized much much faster than fat or protein. You need to take in a lot more oxygen to burn the fat than you do to burn carbohydrate, and the last thing you want to do when exercising at higher and higher intensities is have to take in more oxygen than you need. The less you have to work at those intensities, the better. So if your body was actually working to burn primarily fat, then it would have to work overtime, and that's why it makes that switch to carbohydrate energy sources and eventually anaerobic metabolism.

Some of those diets are interesting, but I think we also have to look at them more closely to see if it is a placebo effect or if there are (and this is where i'd put my money if I were a betting man) uncontrolled variables that would contribute to the improved cycling performance.
 

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Exercise is good

rkohler said:
You hit the nail on the head. It's all about the caloric equation -

calories in = calories out --> you maintain your weight
calories in > calories out --> you gain weight
calories in < calories out --> you loose weight

simple as that. Atkins sucks, exercise is good, and that's it. :)

I wish everyone thought like you did, Sadlebred! We would have a fit, healthy nation and all those friggin' infomercial companies would be out of business!
I followed the rules above "calories in< calories out --> you loose weight
I lost 25 lbs. in 2 and half months 190 to 165, and have maintain this for the past 4 months. I cut out all sodas, no junk food ,went home for lunch ,more fruit and veggies.
Ate 3 meals a day, just smaller portion and go to bed alittle hungry. Now I'm able to climb
faster, and my average speed has gone up. :cool: Only weigh 10 lbs more then I did in high school, that was 29 years ago. :)
 

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Nice! Did you see the special on CNN about a month ago? I think it was CNN, but maybe one of the other major news stations (ABC maybe?). They did a test to see which type of diet was the best for loosing weight. There were, I think, 6 volunteers who joined and each one was assigned to a different diet. They were all well overweight and had quite a bit of weight to loose.

I think they had Atkins (obviously), Slim Fast, Jenny Craig, hypnosis, self-help tapes, and vigorous exercise. Long story short, the top two were Atkins (unfortunately, because it actually does work) and the intense exercise (the lady was training for a marathon in Hawaii I think). So those were 1 and 2, and the rest worked somewhat, but not as good as 1st and 2nd place. But guess which one got 1st place?

The intense exercise!! ;) She lost the most weight out of the group, and the best part, in my opinion at least, is that she also became the most fit out of the group as well. Even though Atkins came in a close second place, the person who was on that is probably not even close to being as fit as the lady who participated in the intense exercise.

That's 1 for exercise and a sound diet and a big ZERO for Atkins!
 

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I think we can accept Atkins as a diet for fit people when we see someone win a medal at the Olympics and/or win a Pro championship in an endurance event and be able to show they really were on Atkins.

If it really worked *for fit people* the whole Pro Peloton would be on it, even if it was bad for their hearts, etc.. (The health risks of EPO, etc.. don't stop them, Atkins wouldn't either.)

I don't really buy the "I can ride longer on it than I could before" thing. Of course you will percieve to have more cycling endurance/power on Atkins at 175lbs then you did on no diet at 235lbs. That is such a huge weight loss your cycling will be utterly transformed. The Atkins exercise examples always have the person start at "staggeringly unfit". If Jan Ulrich went on it and crushed the hell out of Lance Armstrong this summer and won by 20 minutes then maybe it might be a little more believable.

There is still the health issue, the "fit person" examples in Atkins' book still have much higher cholesterol, etc.. than I do.

Ben
 

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feels like lactic acid burn a second into the ride

MikeBiker said:
Both my GF and I have been on Atkins for 18 months. I have lost about 45 lbs and am now at 175 lbs at 5'11". Initially I did feel I had much energy, but now I can ride for significantly longer times at a much higher heart rate than when I was doing the low-fat (hogh carb) thing. I was worried about bonking on long rides due to running out of carb stores, but that never happened. I believe that I am burning more fats at higher energy outputs than previously.
Thats interesting. Im in the first week and so far have felt weak at cycling and running. My legs felt like lactic acid burn as soon as I started pedaling. I pushed through it but felt weak and light headed the rest of the day. The diet is a diuretic (sp?), as in, I have to pee a lot more, so I may also have been dehydrated. Running today felt awful too, and I quit early. The GF did a half marathon today and totally bonked. I wasnt there, but she told me that she felt so bad she totally broke down and ate bananas and oranges. I dont blame her. So far, the diet is sort of difficult to do, as I want some carbs when Im hungry.

We are sticking with the diet and will see what happens in the later weeks. Thanks for the post!
 
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